Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 38

Thread: Project ATC300ES

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    --
    303

    Project ATC300ES

    Howdy! I don't have a ton of posts on here, but I'm starting a new project and I thought I'd share. I'm no where near as good as some of the great builders on this forum, but I'll give it a go. This post is kind of long, but there are pictures at the end

    Almost 3 years ago I got a good deal on a pretty original '85 BR for only $400. It was my first Big Red and it's been a blast. It certainly isn't collector grade, but it is pretty clean and unmolested and runs fantastic. After seeing a thread about the 300SX running around in the UK, I thought it would be cool to do a 300 Big Red or 300SX. More power is always fun!

    I began browsing Craigslist looking for a good deal on a TRX300 engine. I found a '95 TRX300 2WD less than a hour away. It was a complete bike, except the rear end was trashed and the wheels + tires had been taken for another project. The axle had actually seized in the rear end, and the previous owner beat the crap out of the axle and it wouldn't budge. We messed with it a bit and it started right up and didn't smoke, so I bought the whole bike for only $100. I was going to swap the 300 in the '85 BR, but I realized it was too nice of a runner to mess with. I didn't want to tear into a (mostly) original bike, just to swap it and go beat on it.

    Over a year passes and I found a cheap '85 250SX. Owner said it ran, but it was rough. ROUGH. I ended up buying it in the dark and dragging it home. After pulling off the mismatched plastic, seat, and tank, it was clear this bike was done. The frame had been hacked on and the rear end had no oil and was instead packed with grease! It had a full size car battery mounted in an angle iron mount, random muffler welded on, and the wiring harness had been chewed up, with a full size car starter solenoid hacked in. I got it to run, but it smoked very badly and blew oil out the exhaust. I saved the engine, forks, and a few small parts, but ended up scraping the frame and rear end.

    Nearly another year passes, and I decided I needed to do something with this 300 I've been sitting on, so back to Craigslist. I was hoping to find a non-running Big Red/250SX for cheap in decent shape, then swap in the 300, thus getting an old 3 wheeler back together and getting rid of this non-rolling mess I'd been holding onto. There doesn't seem to be too many Big Reds for sale around me (Central TX) right now, and most of the ones I found were running bikes. Then I found an '86. Listed as not-running, with some broken plastics. The kid selling it clearly didn't know much about it, just that it wouldn't run and he didn't know why.

    I took a chance and drove 2 hours to go look at it. I made sure to bring tools to inspect the rear diff this time around. It was a bit nicer than I expected. Other than sun damage to the plastic tank, seat, and fenders, it wasn't bad at all. The rear end was full of oil, no water, and the brakes needed adjustment but were complete. The fishy part was the starter was off the bike, and clearly the entire air intact track was not installed right. The forks have zero oil in them, but aren't seized up and the boots are still intact. I bought it for $350.

    Even though I wanted to swap it, I wanted to take a shot at getting it running first, to hopefully sell the 250. The starter had all of the teeth rounded off badly, and after pulling the starter gear cover the idler gear was just gone. The 250SX engine I had saved provided a good starter and gear. After connecting the neutral switch, cleaning the filthy carb, and replacing the fuel line that was gunked up solid, it fired right up and runs great. It doesn't smoke and shifts through all the gears. Success!!

    After having some fun moving around the non-rolling TRX300 with my tractor, I got the engine out of the frame without too much trouble. My current plan is to take the output shaft off of the 250SX engine and swap it onto the 300, leaving the BR 250 intact. Once I get the 300 in the bike and running, I'm going to rebuild the front forks and get it ready for some trails.

    I think it would be cool to do a big bore and/or stroker kit of some kind in the future, to build a 350cc or 425cc BR, but I'm not ready to dump that kind of cash (yet). Maybe after I get some miles on it...

    On the trailer on the way home:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	trailer-s.jpg 
Views:	73 
Size:	561.0 KB 
ID:	183286

    Condition as brought home:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	before-1s.jpg 
Views:	64 
Size:	693.0 KB 
ID:	183280Click image for larger version. 

Name:	before-3s.jpg 
Views:	60 
Size:	770.0 KB 
ID:	183287Click image for larger version. 

Name:	before-2s.jpg 
Views:	51 
Size:	654.4 KB 
ID:	183291Click image for larger version. 

Name:	before-4s.jpg 
Views:	49 
Size:	550.6 KB 
ID:	183288

    After getting it running and removing the home-made add-ons, though the front basket is a Hondaline:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	running-2s.jpg 
Views:	58 
Size:	994.3 KB 
ID:	183285Click image for larger version. 

Name:	running-1s.jpg 
Views:	58 
Size:	1.02 MB 
ID:	183284

    Donor almost totally stripped:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	donor-1s.jpg 
Views:	112 
Size:	749.2 KB 
ID:	183289
    -Chad

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Henderson, Tx.
    --
    977
    Cool story! Both variants of that engine are bulletproof! I have 3 of those 300 fourtrax and love them all. You'll have an easy swap. Just be sure to swap the flywheel and stator from the ES over to the TRX engine so the electronics will work. Oh, by the way, does that TRX chassis have the mounts for the front diff? I could use a good frame if you'd ship.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Henderson, Tx.
    --
    977
    Oh, I would also be interested in that exhaust from the TRX as well.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    --
    303
    Quote Originally Posted by 6speedthumper View Post
    Cool story! Both variants of that engine are bulletproof! I have 3 of those 300 fourtrax and love them all. You'll have an easy swap. Just be sure to swap the flywheel and stator from the ES over to the TRX engine so the electronics will work. Oh, by the way, does that TRX chassis have the mounts for the front diff? I could use a good frame if you'd ship.
    The frame is a 2WD frame, so no front diff mounts. It is pretty clean and straight though.

    I'm not sure what I want to do with wiring. I have the complete TRX300 wiring harness and electronics. I wasn't sure if could use the 250 CDI with the 300 engine without swapping the stator/flywheel. Or I could use the 300 CDI. I need to get some wiring diagrams and compare connectors.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6speedthumper View Post
    Oh, I would also be interested in that exhaust from the TRX as well.
    The 300 exhaust is in pretty decent shape, except there is 1 small hole on the end of the muffler by the outlet. I can get pictures if you are interested.
    -Chad

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    MN
    --
    3,263
    If you have the wiring and electronics from the 300 and they were working i would stick with them instead of rewiring and swapping parts, just easier in the end!

    Looks like a great project, will watch how this one turns out for sure!
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    1984 Honda ATC200ES "Big Red"
    1982 ATC200E "Hondie"
    1988 TRX300FW "Project Quad" Still in progress....

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    --
    303
    Quote Originally Posted by kb0nly View Post
    If you have the wiring and electronics from the 300 and they were working i would stick with them instead of rewiring and swapping parts, just easier in the end!

    Looks like a great project, will watch how this one turns out for sure!
    I need to spend some quality time with the wiring diagrams and see what's what, though the wiring on the BR is probably in better shape than the TRX.
    -Chad

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    --
    303
    After studying the wiring diagrams and the wiring harness on the donor TRX300, I have a plan. My 250ES wiring is actually in really good shape and not molested at all, while the TRX wiring has seen better days. I plan to run the 250ES wiring and CDI. I purchased a bad '86 250 stator here on the forum (thanks redsox!) in order to steal the connectors to avoid mods to the 250 wiring harness. The 250ES has 2 grounds going to the stator while the TRX300 only has 1, but I don't expect that to be an issue. Hopefully I can simply put the proper stator connector on the 300 and it will plug right in.

    If that doesn't work, my backup plan is to use the TRX300 CDI. As most people know the Big Red 85 and 86-87 CDI's are different. The 86-87 250ES and TRX300 have the same connectors to the CDI with the same wires, just in different locations. I'll re-pin the connector to work with the TRX300 CDI if the 250ES CDI won't run the TRX300, but at this point I'm hopeful that won't be required.
    -Chad

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    --
    303
    Despite not posting here for over a month, I have been working on this. I pulled the 250 out of the bike:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	noengine-2.jpg 
Views:	19 
Size:	728.7 KB 
ID:	187222

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	noengine-1.jpg 
Views:	15 
Size:	659.4 KB 
ID:	187221

    And temporarily dropped in the 300:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	300-testfit.jpg 
Views:	72 
Size:	703.5 KB 
ID:	187220

    It dropped right in as expected. I bought a bad 250ES stator to steal the connectors from. I connected it to the 300 engine, combining both grounds to the one ground on the 300. This allowed the 300 to plug right into the 250 harness. Sadly I did not have spark with the 250ES CDI.

    As I said the '86-87 250ES shares the same connector with the TRX300 CDI but the pins are in different locations. I repinned the chassis connector to the 300 setup, and I still didn't have spark. I messed with this for a while and double checked my connections with no luck. Finally I admitted defeat and pulled the entire 250ES wiring off and replaced it with the TRX300 wiring. I'm using everything but the lights from the 300, including the dash panel and key. It lays out pretty well on the trike. I mounted the CDI and oil temp warning box behind the headlight where the 250ES fuses were located. I still need to get a headlight connector, and connect up the tail lights. Once the wiring is squared away, I'll start on the output shaft swap.
    -Chad

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    STL
    --
    3,560
    cool project man, im in for some updates on this!
    TrikeFest 07,08,09,10,11,12,13,14 SandPuppie's Ride 07,08,09 Imperial Invasion 09, 13

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    --
    303
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonB View Post
    cool project man, im in for some updates on this!
    Thanks, it's no ATC500R, but should be fun.
    -Chad

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Sarnia, Ontario, Canada
    --
    3,415
    Really interested in the outcome of this installation..also the overall performance change in the machine.

    I'll be watching..
    Current toys..
    1986 Honda 350X..trail bomb!
    1985 Honda 250SX..my main mudder
    1985 Honda 250ES..Back in Black Trike
    Current non-trike toys:
    1990 Honda TRX300FW
    1995 Seadoo GTX
    1998 Polaris Indy Lite 340(Nearly new looking)
    1998 Polaris Touring 500
    1998 Club Car (electric)

  12. #12
    King Trikester is offline At The Back Of The Pack Arm chair racerAt the back of the pack
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Canada, B.C, FSJ
    --
    435
    I've been following this thread since day one, I'm looking forward to updates and completion, I've always wanted to do this swap. Good luck

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    --
    303
    I've finally finished (almost) all of the wiring work. In my last post I said I used the complete TRX300 wiring, and had mounted the CDI and oil temp box right behind the headlight (the TRX300 has the CDI up at the front by the steering shaft). After further investigation, I decided I didn't like that. A bunch of wires now had to move when the handle bars were turned, and that was making the entire harness shift around on the frame. I removed all the factory tape and moved the CDI and oil box back to the stock 250ES location. I had to extended and shorten a few wires, but it turned out pretty well.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	wiring-3s.jpg 
Views:	34 
Size:	849.1 KB 
ID:	187924 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	wiring-1s.jpg 
Views:	51 
Size:	938.6 KB 
ID:	187922

    Everything is now in the original 250ES location. The wiring follows the original routing, and looks mostly stock. I had to make a sub-harness with a Y for the tail lights, and I still need to find a harness-side headlight connector to get the headlight hooked up. I used the donor TRX300 dash and key, which includes the oil temp light. I had to cut off the cable guide in the front to clear the headlight, but it came out OK.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	wiring-2s.jpg 
Views:	39 
Size:	658.9 KB 
ID:	187923

    I'm going to run the TRX300 CV style carb. I did a test fit of the carb, which required swapping to the TRX300 throttle cable (different thread pitch on the carb side) and putting the proper fitting and plunger on the choke cable. Despite all the wiring shenanigans, she fired right up and settled into a nice idle. I verified the stator/rectifier are charging the battery and the tail lights work as they should.

    The only part left to getting the TRX300 in the chassis permanently is swapping the output shaft. Hopefully I can get that done somewhat soon. There are a lot of details that need to get done before the final engine assembly: clean up and paint the exhaust, clean dirt/grime/grease off of the frame, maybe touch up the paint on the battery box, etc.

    I need to get a move on so it is done before it's too hot to ride!
    Last edited by MojaveRider; 03-01-2014 at 06:35 PM.
    -Chad

  14. #14
    Chopsaw is offline Just Too Addicted Arm chair racerJust too addicted
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    St. Louis
    --
    505
    Like this one , same as above wondering about the performance / power increase . I have a 85 completely torn down right now . Keep us updated .

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    chicago il
    --
    505
    be careful swapping the output shaft. all the transmission gears are on it and if not careful there are shims that fall out of place really easy. I know from experience and had to split the cases on a good running motor. if I had to do it again I would pull the motor and set it on its side, so the gears would be stacked perfectly up and down. I guess it could be done in the bike but when you turn it on its side you would have to stack some wood under the front end to get it all level. GOOD LUCK!

    other than that it looks real good. I have wondered about doing this swap for a long time and may need to attempt it sometime.
    Trikes: All Honda: 84 250r, 85 86 and 87 250sx, 84 and 85 125m, 79 82 84 and 85 110's, 73 us 90 and 77 atc90, 75 atc70
    Cycles: Honda: 71 cb100, 78 cb750 coming soon cb750 trike. Yamaha: 67 yds 3 (250cc, 2cyl, 2 stroke), 82 750 SECA
    Other toys: Chenoweth VW sandrail dune buggy, old race go kart, racing mower, 76 Arctic Cat Pantera 440 snowmobile

    KEEP IT ON ALL 3 OR AT LEAST 2 AT A TIME

//ArrowChat Integreation Code //