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Thread: History Question - What did they do with all the recalled Three Wheelers

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by barnett468 View Post
    Yeah, not to mention the accident one might get into when they spill a steaming hot, flesh removing cup of that stuff on their lap.

    Oh what about banning lipstick so people can't put it on in the car while they are driving.

    Don't forget, they banned the sale of, or upsizing to, Supersize drinks in New York temporarily because kids were turning into obese, diabetic, sugar addicts.

    The the gov also banned the use of trans fats by all big name fast food stores because junior turned into a blimp and had 50% blocked arteries and high cholesterol by the age of 12 because it ate cheese burgers and fries every day and never got up of its fat lard backside to do anything but turn on Nntendo or X Box etc.

    Now thanks to PIGGY, all the french fries we buy from places like that taste like tofu or a wet sponge. I can't even put real salt on them because the gov makes them give away salt substitute along with sugar substitute instead of the real stuff because the gov does not want me to have a stroke or die because they would loose income from another tax payer if I did.

    Did someone mention Honey Boo Boo and its Mom?




    Did you look at the videos yet? You won't believe what you see and hear.

    Let us know what you think of the show.

    I'll post a couple more things not already mentioned by others that you might find interesting when I get some time.
    Yes I did watch the videos. It blows my mind. Not to get too graphic, but if every family made a video of victims I pull out of cars and houses that die due to those thats all that would play on every channel. At some point people need to realize that some things just aren't for them. I'm not a motorcycle guy. Would it be easier than a trike over time? Probably, but they are just not for me and I realize it.

    I just wonder where we would be today if this "ban" never happened. Would we be so addicted to them? Would they be 1/3 of the cost of what we are paying now? Or would they be something no one cares about anymore?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by barnett468 View Post
    Our legal dept prepped him for several days on what, and what not to say, and to never mention my name and just play stupid.
    Did he even know your name?

  3. #33
    barnett468 is offline FACT ! I have no edit button Arm chair racerThe day begins with 3WW
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    Quote Originally Posted by afdfirefighter View Post

    Thank you everyone for your input and responses. I hope this thread keeps going for a while. I enjoy hearing everyones stories and information!!!! Interesting stuff!!!

    I love old pictures and like to see how they manufactured and warehoused these back in the day.

    ...just want to learn a little more about these back when they were new. Was 15-20 years before my time...
    Honda had a big fancy facility in L A Calif. [where they still are] long before Kawi did. I went by there on several occasions when I worked at Norm Reeves Honda, Kawasaki, Bultaco and BSA in Anaheim back in 1975. Norm Reeves had, and still have, another store in Lakewood.

    When I started at Kawi around 82 or 83, they had the R and D, US engineering, fabricating and racing dept. in Santa Ana near Costa Mesa and the warehouse and office facilities in a small single story warehouse around 10 miles away.

    We did all the testing and development of the off road bikes, Police bikes, Watercraft and new projects like the Mule at the Rand D facility.

    When racing dept. was done with some of the bikes, they would take them out back, tape the throttle wide open, take bets from everyone on how long it would run until it hurled, then start it up and lean it against the fence until it expired.

    Japan sent over a pro road racer to R and D for a week to do some testing. He got stopped in Costa Mesa for speeding…duhhh, on some sort of street bike Kawi loaned him. He didn’t speak a word of English but could say Kawasaki. Well the Costa police were very familiar with us and our occasional antics and fortunately were extremely tolerant of us. I guess one of the reasons is because they knew we did Police bike development there. Anyway, they figured out right away where he came from and made him park the bike and gave him a ride to the building just to be sure. We laughed our backsides off when we say him with the cops. Well, we gave the cops a tour to insure their continued good will and get out of jail free card etc. and all was well.

    I walked by a brand new, in the crate, 1974 H1 500 in that building every day. They had to keep it for law suit purposes because so many morons got hurt on it. I wanted it bad, they still have it. It’s worth a ton now.

    Kawi built us a shiny new facility out in the middle of nowhere in Lake Forest Calif. [which is a huge city now] that we moved into around 1985. It housed both Calif. Facilities.

    The warehouse was increased in size and was maybe 200 feet long, 150 feet wide and 25 feet high. From what I remember there were 15 foot high racks that stored the bikes and parts. All the parts were picked by hand. We did not have a robot get them like Kia does etc.

    The only US mfg. facility we had was in Nebraska, They only made chassis stuff like frames tanks wheels and wiring etc. They made no engine parts for bikes, those were all shipped assembled to them from Japan. They only made the items for some of the models. Most of the regular motorcycles came complete from Japan.

    The bikes/ATV's that were partially made in Nebraska and fully assembled there were exempt from the recently imposed 40% import duty imposed on all imported motorcycles. This duty/tax was created by the US gov for the sole purpose of keeping Harley Davidson from filing bankruptcy. Kawi told us that because the off road division didn’t make any money anyway that they might close it down altogether because they would lose too much money if they had to pay the tax.

    I walked into a room in the Nebraska plant and saw front bucket seat frames for a Dodge car there. They told me they make many seat frames for Dodge.

    All the bikes and watercraft we received at the warehouse were shipped to us on a truck.

    The bikes all came strapped to a wooden crate with a box covering all but the bottom and were mostly assembled except for the wheels.

    The ones that were “made” at the Nebraska plant said Made in the USA on the box. The ones that came direct from said Made in Japan.

    The bikes and other heavy items that had to be removed from or placed on the upper shelves were moved with a small fork lift.

    Kawi gave employees a discount on bikes that was around 25% less than the dealers paid. I think we could buy 2 a year. Employees were buying them and reselling them for much less than the dealers could. Somehow the dealers found out and complained and the employee price went up to maybe dealer cost plus 5% and only 1 a year. I never bought one.

  4. #34
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    JustEnough is offline At The Back Of The Pack Arm chair racerAt the back of the pack
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    Checked this link from a previous post:

    https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bil...hr4040#summary

    and found this in Section 232...

    Prohibits the importation of new three-wheeled all-terrain vehicles until a mandatory consumer product safety standard applicable to three-wheeled all-terrain vehicles is in effect.
    Requires the CPSC to issue a final rule in its proceeding entitled "Standards for All Terrain Vehicles and Ban of Three-wheeled All Terrain Vehicles."

    So went to the CPSC site and found this from 2006:

    http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Newsroom/News...rain-Vehicles/

    While CPSC believes that there would be a decline in deaths and injuries if riders followed these safe riding practices, the agency has also proposed new rules to make riding safer. These include:

    - Banning 3-wheeled ATVs, which present three times the risk of injury compared to 4-wheel ATVs and have re-emerged through the import market, Internet and secondhand dealers

  5. #35
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    this says it all.

    Prohibits the importation of new three-wheeled all-terrain vehicles until a mandatory consumer product safety standard applicable to three-wheeled all-terrain vehicles is in effect.
    Requires the CPSC to issue a final rule in its proceeding entitled "Standards for All Terrain Vehicles and Ban of Three-wheeled All Terrain Vehicles."
    Requires the Comptroller General to study the utility, recreational, and other benefits of certain all-terrain vehicles and the costs associated with accidents and injuries involving all-terrain vehicles.
    the gov has not done it's job and refused to do it even up to today. how is it we pay a government to do a job and they refuse to do so? if i had a million bucks, i'd sue the gov over this issue.
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  6. #36
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    Anyone know what a COMPTROLLER general is?? Nonetheless,that is a HUGE hole waiting to be filled. It never will. But could be done easily. Again,it only stresses about IMPORTS.
    Please help those who cannot help themselves.

    ALWAYS buying Museum quality machines,3 and 4 wheels. And any and ALL ,NOS parts,EVERY brand.

    I am turning my PM's Off,my Email is billsracing@hotmail.com,put 3WW in the subject. Thanx!

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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by oscarmayer View Post
    this says it all.



    the gov has not done it's job and refused to do it even up to today. how is it we pay a government to do a job and they refuse to do so? if i had a million bucks, i'd sue the gov over this issue.
    A million dollars wouldn't be enough to get you to a discovery hearing my friend. Trust me, if the big 4 could have "fixed" this for under one hundred million they would have. Mass produced trikes are done, period just like the Pinto and leaded toys.

  8. #38
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    fcf35 is offline At The Back Of The Pack Arm chair racerFirst time rider
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    I can say without a doubt that there's new motors popping up everyday.I haven't found anything besides motors though.a lot of the donated motors are in varying condition.some never opened and some have been used for teaching purposes.nevertheless" still a new motor."problem is you don't know if its been opened or not for sure and it may just be me but even if I buy a new motor but its been sitting for 25 years then I'm probably gonna at least pull the top end and make sure everything is right before I take the time to put it in a bike or sell it.people just need to ask about them.there are still schools that have the motors and all it takes is asking.more than likely you'll get them really cheap or even free.I exhausted every resource I have around me but if I'm still finding them in 2013 then there's got to be more.
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  9. #39
    barnett468 is offline FACT ! I have no edit button Arm chair racerThe day begins with 3WW
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    Quote Originally Posted by afdfirefighter View Post
    Thank you everyone for your input and responses. I hope this thread keeps going for a while. I enjoy hearing everyones stories and information!!!! Interesting stuff!!!


    In a statement/report to the CPSC and others, the American Association of Pediatricians [AAP] says/implies that 3 wheelers should be banned due to the total amount of deaths and injuries incurred while riding, NOT because of the percentage of 3 wheel riders killed or injured while riding the vehicles.

    The government [CPSC] needed support to get their plan pushed through. They received it from the medical community via the AAP and AAOS.

    The AAP says the average number of deaths from all ATV’s is around 280 a year or 2,800 over a ten year period.

    The amount of injuries incurred from them is around 108,000 in 1986 down to 54,000 in 1998.



    Ok, the number of recorded deaths from drivers and passengers of ON highway vehicles in 1998 alone is a whopping 53,020. That's an average of 530,200 in 10 years.

    .. 530,200
    ... - 2,800

    = 527,400 more deaths fron cars and motorcycles in 10 years than from ALL ATV's, hmmm.


    The number of recorded injuries from drivers and passengers of cars and motorcycles in 1998 alone is ONLY, 3 million sixty one thousand.

    Based on the statistics I don’t know why they didn’t ban cars and motorcycles instead and just let everyone tide 3 wheelers on the highway.


    Excerpt from AAP’s letter/report to the CPSC.

    “Almost 2800 deaths have been attributed to ATVs (about 200 to 300 annually) since 1985.14 The risk of death, approximately .8 to 1.0 per 10 000 ATVs, has remained fairly steady since 1987. Annual emergency department visits for treatment of ATV-related injuries reached a peak of 108 000 in 1986 and declined after that to the present level of about 54 500.”

    Full article below.

    http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...05/6/1352.full


    1998 NHTSA statistics for highway deaths and injuries.

    33,028 passengers killed in cars, trucks, busses.

    2,294 riders killed on motorcycles

    5,228 pedestrians killed by on highway vehicles of all types.

    760 bicycle riders killed by in highway vehicles.

    3million, twelve thousand passengers injured in cars, trucks and busses.

    49,000 injured riding motorcycles.

    Full statistics below.

    http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811162.PDF

  10. #40
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    Unfortunatly history (and statistics) are written by the victors, not us. Ever see a statistic about people who survived a crash because they weren't wearing a seatbelt? They exist, I know two of them, but you'll never see a goverment funded study mention such nonsense. Need more proof? Look at the rosy unemployment stats the goverment publishes each month.

  11. #41
    barnett468 is offline FACT ! I have no edit button Arm chair racerThe day begins with 3WW
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    Quote Originally Posted by afdfirefighter View Post
    Thank you everyone for your input and responses. I hope this thread keeps going for a while. I enjoy hearing everyones stories and information!!!! Interesting stuff!!!
    Hello afdfighter;


    The following are some of the recommendations made by the AAP in 2000. As one can see they are still trying to kill them off 12 years after they are no longer mfg’d. I thought you might enjoy reading them. I added a little commentary.



    “The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) now updates its earlier recommendations to decrease death and injury related to the use of all 2-, 3-, and 4-wheeled ATVs:

    Pediatricians should advocate for the passage of the AAP's model bill19.”



    “The AAP recommends a ban on the sale of all 3-wheeled ATVs, new and used, and a recall with a refund for present owners of the 3-wheeled models.”

    Well, why does the AAP make all the recommendations listed below if they want them banned anyway? If they ban them there won’t be any ATV’s to improve the safety of or educate people about…duhhh.



    “Education, public and individual patient and parent, about the hazards of all ATVs should continue.”

    Unfortunately as one can see in the 60 minute videos some parents are morons and need training themselves.

    Hey AAP, this info is thoroughly detailed in the SAFETY PRECAUTIONS section of the 1973 ATC 90 OWNERS MANUAL! Yes, that’s right, 1 9 7 3. Perhaps you might like to read it. See page 44 – 53 in the link at the bottom of page.


    “During anticipatory guidance, families should be asked, either by direct questioning or intake survey, about the kinds of recreational activities in which they engage. Just as those who have a swimming pool merit special counseling, so do families who engage in off-road vehicle use. The following points should be emphasized:”

    Who is going to do this for someone that buys an ATV from a private party, besides riding and safety instructions are in the manual?

    RECREATION - Well, I like to drink beer, and shoot at street signs with my assault rifle as I drive by. How does this question help?

    POOL EDUCATION - Johnny, don't hold your sisters head under water for more than 5 minutes.



    “Laws should prohibit the use of ATVs, on- or off-road, by children and adolescents younger than 16 years. Children who are not licensed to drive a car should not be allowed to operate off-road vehicles.”An automobile driver's license, and preferably some additional certification in ATV use, should be required to operate an ATV. The safe use of ATVs requires the same or greater skill, judgment, and experience as needed to operate an automobile. Off-road vehicles are particularly dangerous for children younger than 16 years who may have immature judgment and motor skills.

    Well, not only would we not have virtually every single past National and World Champion in most Motorsports if this had always been a law and if they had passed it, it would end the off road motorcycle production completely because not only are there not enough purchases of these vehicles from people over 16, there would be no ability for parents to take it up as a family sport because John and Jane have either moved out or been kicked out of the house by the time their 16.



    “Injuries frequently occur to passengers, therefore riding double should not be permitted.”

    Gee, it says that in the 1973 manual below and used to say just that on the top of the tanks or plastic ANYWAY.



    “All riders should wear helmets, eye protection, and protective reflective clothing. Appropriate helmets are those designed for motorcycle (not bicycle) use, and should include safety visors/face shields for eye protection.”

    Uh, I think this was first recommended around 1908 and it’s mentioned on the FIRST page of the S A F E T Y section in the 1 9 7 3 manual below.



    “Drivers of recreational vehicles should not drive after drinking alcohol. Parents should set an example for their children in this regard.”

    It’s in the MANUAL!

    Hey Johnny, hand me that 5th of Jack over yonder so I can show ya what NOT to do.

    WARNING LABEL - Don’t drink alcohol while operating your ATV, save it for the drive home.



    “Install seat belts on 4-wheeled ATVs and require that the vehicles also have a roll bar to prevent the driver from being crushed by the weight of the vehicle in the event of a rollover.”

    I can just picture Jimmy White and Marty Hart now, strapped safely down to the seat on their quads with a roll cage battling it out at Carlsbad Raceway.



    “Efforts should be made to design ATVs so that they cannot carry passengers.”

    Sure, just place punji sticks everywhere except where the operator sits.



    “Many injuries are caused by various disruptions in the driving surface such as, bumps and holes. Developing and maintaining trails for the use of off-road vehicles may help reduce injury rates.”

    Highly detailed instructions along with detailed photos on how to ride ALL types of terrain are IN…THE…MANUAL!

    Well that highway were parked next to looks plenty smooth enough for a safe ride to me kids so go have at it.

    Watch out for those little reflective lane dividers, you might get thrown over the bars when your 8” of suspension bottoms out over one at speed.

    I can picture Jeff Ward, Ricky Carmichael and others at the Supercross complaining to the AMA rep saying, “Uh, gee, the track seems to have “disruptions” in the surface and we feel that it is too dangerous to ride on, could you please take those out for us? Oh, and don’t forget to smooth out those undulating surfaces too.

    I'd love to see them try and grade 50 square miles of the Mojave desert or all of the sand dunes in Glamis. Oh, and don't forget to remove the bushes too



    “Prehospital care networks and emergency services should be improved in rural areas, which may minimize the effects of injuries and reduce deaths.”

    Oh sure, make the motorcycle companies put up a fully staffed 3 million dollar Urgent Care facility near every track and OHV area. I got a bottle full of Urgent Care right here in my fanny pak.



    1973 ATC 90 OWNERS MANUAL

    http://www.atcmanuals.info/


    See full article below.

    http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...05/6/1352.full

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by barnett468 View Post
    Hello afdfighter;


    The following are some of the recommendations made by the AAP in 2000. As one can see they are still trying to kill them off 12 years after they are no longer mfg’d. I thought you might enjoy reading them. I added a little commentary.



    “The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) now updates its earlier recommendations to decrease death and injury related to the use of all 2-, 3-, and 4-wheeled ATVs:

    Pediatricians should advocate for the passage of the AAP's model bill19.”



    “The AAP recommends a ban on the sale of all 3-wheeled ATVs, new and used, and a recall with a refund for present owners of the 3-wheeled models.”

    Well, why does the AAP make all the recommendations listed below if they want them banned anyway? If they ban them there won’t be any ATV’s to improve the safety of or educate people about…duhhh.



    “Education, public and individual patient and parent, about the hazards of all ATVs should continue.”

    Unfortunately as one can see in the 60 minute videos some parents are morons and need training themselves.

    Hey AAP, this info is thoroughly detailed in the SAFETY PRECAUTIONS section of the 1973 ATC 90 OWNERS MANUAL! Yes, that’s right, 1 9 7 3. Perhaps you might like to read it. See page 44 – 53 in the link at the bottom of page.


    “During anticipatory guidance, families should be asked, either by direct questioning or intake survey, about the kinds of recreational activities in which they engage. Just as those who have a swimming pool merit special counseling, so do families who engage in off-road vehicle use. The following points should be emphasized:”

    Who is going to do this for someone that buys an ATV from a private party, besides riding and safety instructions are in the manual?

    RECREATION - Well, I like to drink beer, and shoot at street signs with my assault rifle as I drive by. How does this question help?

    POOL EDUCATION - Johnny, don't hold your sisters head under water for more than 5 minutes.



    “Laws should prohibit the use of ATVs, on- or off-road, by children and adolescents younger than 16 years. Children who are not licensed to drive a car should not be allowed to operate off-road vehicles.”An automobile driver's license, and preferably some additional certification in ATV use, should be required to operate an ATV. The safe use of ATVs requires the same or greater skill, judgment, and experience as needed to operate an automobile. Off-road vehicles are particularly dangerous for children younger than 16 years who may have immature judgment and motor skills.

    Well, not only would we not have virtually every single past National and World Champion in most Motorsports if this had always been a law and if they had passed it, it would end the off road motorcycle production completely because not only are there not enough purchases of these vehicles from people over 16, there would be no ability for parents to take it up as a family sport because John and Jane have either moved out or been kicked out of the house by the time their 16.



    “Injuries frequently occur to passengers, therefore riding double should not be permitted.”

    Gee, it says that in the 1973 manual below and used to say just that on the top of the tanks or plastic ANYWAY.



    “All riders should wear helmets, eye protection, and protective reflective clothing. Appropriate helmets are those designed for motorcycle (not bicycle) use, and should include safety visors/face shields for eye protection.”

    Uh, I think this was first recommended around 1908 and it’s mentioned on the FIRST page of the S A F E T Y section in the 1 9 7 3 manual below.



    “Drivers of recreational vehicles should not drive after drinking alcohol. Parents should set an example for their children in this regard.”

    It’s in the MANUAL!

    Hey Johnny, hand me that 5th of Jack over yonder so I can show ya what NOT to do.

    WARNING LABEL - Don’t drink alcohol while operating your ATV, save it for the drive home.



    “Install seat belts on 4-wheeled ATVs and require that the vehicles also have a roll bar to prevent the driver from being crushed by the weight of the vehicle in the event of a rollover.”

    I can just picture Jimmy White and Marty Hart now, strapped safely down to the seat on their quads with a roll cage battling it out at Carlsbad Raceway.



    “Efforts should be made to design ATVs so that they cannot carry passengers.”

    Sure, just place punji sticks everywhere except where the operator sits.



    “Many injuries are caused by various disruptions in the driving surface such as, bumps and holes. Developing and maintaining trails for the use of off-road vehicles may help reduce injury rates.”

    Highly detailed instructions along with detailed photos on how to ride ALL types of terrain are IN…THE…MANUAL!

    Well that highway were parked next to looks plenty smooth enough for a safe ride to me kids so go have at it.

    Watch out for those little reflective lane dividers, you might get thrown over the bars when your 8” of suspension bottoms out over one at speed.

    I can picture Jeff Ward, Ricky Carmichael and others at the Supercross complaining to the AMA rep saying, “Uh, gee, the track seems to have “disruptions” in the surface and we feel that it is too dangerous to ride on, could you please take those out for us? Oh, and don’t forget to smooth out those undulating surfaces too.

    I'd love to see them try and grade 50 square miles of the Mojave desert or all of the sand dunes in Glamis. Oh, and don't forget to remove the bushes too



    “Prehospital care networks and emergency services should be improved in rural areas, which may minimize the effects of injuries and reduce deaths.”

    Oh sure, make the motorcycle companies put up a fully staffed 3 million dollar Urgent Care facility near every track and OHV area. I got a bottle full of Urgent Care right here in my fanny pak.



    1973 ATC 90 OWNERS MANUAL

    http://www.atcmanuals.info/


    See full article below.

    http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...05/6/1352.full
    This is so e good stuff! Did anyone ever defend the manuals at all during this time when they were trying to ban them? Sounds like every guideline they wanted to set fourth had been established in the manual itself!

  13. #43
    barnett468 is offline FACT ! I have no edit button Arm chair racerThe day begins with 3WW
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    Quote Originally Posted by afdfirefighter View Post
    This is so e good stuff! Did anyone ever defend the manuals at all during this time when they were trying to ban them? Sounds like every guideline they wanted to set fourth had been established in the manual itself!
    Hello again afdfirefighter;


    I don't know about the mfg's defending the manuals and proving they had already been doing a lot of what was being asked of them but I';m sure they did obviously to no avail.

    Once it became a "Save the poor helpless children." issue/campaign it was all over.

    Yeah, they certainly met a lot of the guidelines and that was back in 1973 long before anyone asked them to. Check out the owner’s manual on riding instructions, it’s incredibly detailed. It basically teaches you the basics on how to ride like Dean Sundahl.

    The mfg’s really didn’t want to kill off their customers so they made a very diligent effort to inform them the best they could.

    I worked at a motorcycle shop and I was actually in charge of training people on how to ride street bikes. This was a courtesy service the shop provided. Now imagine if someone got seriously hurt while I was training them. The shop had no insurance for this. They would have been sued and had to close their doors and then there never would have been any Norm Reeves Honda Car dealerships, lol.

    The AAP said they want public education and training provided by the mfg's. Ok, are they going to make it a law that all the dealers have to physically train people how to ride? If so, since the gov is forcing the shops to do this, are they going to pay the lawsuit if someone the shop was training gets hurt during training? I think not.

    Now, imagine that the rider survives training but gets hurt a month or year later and sues the shop claiming their accident was the shops fault because they did not train them sufficiently.

    As far as having the trainee sign a waiver holding the shop and trainer harmless etc., it is not a legal document. All these waivers people sign at all these events are worthless. One of the reasons Saddleback Park closed down is because they lost a lawsuit when they got sued by a couple riders that signed waivers and crashed into each other there.

    The water truck rolling over with the driver in it and killing him in front of a huge crowd while he was watering the track before a race didn’t help much either I guess.

    This particular request seems a bit unreasonable to me to say the very least.

  14. #44
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    Here in NY the state parks got utility trikes donated for park patrols.I remember seeing big reds and sx trikes in the late 80s early 90s.Patroling at the beach.
    250r rules

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    It's all about labeling.
    The reason the number ONE cause of liver failure in the usa is still legal?
    Because tylenol states very clearly in invisible print, to follow directions exACTly.

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