Lol @ billygolightly's next build???

[trike savior]

obviously a carb cant work on its side but if it is injected it could. However, when you tip it now the pistons are facing up and you would be solely relying on the airflow in the motor to pull oil up to the pistons. oil is heavy and gravity is a mother f-er.

Now you say "but any 2 stroke bike engine has piston facing up." but you are introducing fuel/oil/air from the side of the cylinder. the oil is generally heavy enough to separate and got to the bottom end. while your fuel/air goes into the combustion chamber.

on an outboard the fuel/air/oil has to travel through the crank case to get to the pistons/combustion chamber. the oil is left behind on the crank and other parts and the air/fuel goes to the combustion chamber.

now I have heard some of the newer/ higher end 2 stroke outboards do not mix the oil with the fuel at all. they still use 2 stroke oil but they actually route it to the crank bearings and it is introduced there. then whatever gets slung off the crank lubricates the cylinder. I don't have money to play with new things so I do not know this to be true.

even with this setup you would still have the problem of relying on airflow to get enough lubrication to the pistons. and if you tried installing with pistons facing down I would think too much oil would get in the combustion chamber causing a whole bunch of problems.

these motors are designed to run standing up. one of the comments on the video said they saw an outboard powered sandrail. I would be interested to see how they went about it. especially attaching to the crank. Outboard shafts that go to the lower unit are not very big because there is not much load on them. think about the forces involved on spinning a prop in water versus moving a machine in sand and mud. I have seen some pretty bad things happen to prop shafts and intermediate shafts (ie. engine to lower unit) when people hit bottom at speed. splines shear and shafts break and bend.

[fabiodriven]

I appreciate the thorough explanation and maybe it's just me. I still don't see what the problem would be.

[slashfan7964]

I believe GM made a 2 stroke diesel back in the 60s for heavy duty use. Sounded sweet.


Speaking of projects, have you guys seen that nitro Raptor that was built? It has a 13,000rpm 4 stroke that pumps out 400 horsepower. Stands up going downhill on sand.

[trike savior]

dang it, I just love writing a post to find someone made some more posts. I am quite surprised that they actually turned the motor on its side. obviously it works but who knows for how long. as you can see from the first video, on a V outboard engine the exhaust comes out of the middle of the cylinders. on the inside of the cank case, on the outside of each row of cylinders you have your combustion chamber intakes. so I can almost guarantee the bottom combustion chambers will get a lot of oil in them, and I have no idea how any lubrication is getting to the cylinders now on top.

either way really cool and ridiculous hp. they are not loosing any hp either, I am pretty sure the 3.2l e-rude is the 225-250hp. Pulling gears in the sand must be wicked. hard to keep front wheels on ground.

I think someone needs to make a purpose built horizontal 2 stroke v8 engine for this exact reason.

[trike savior]

there are some style carbs that can continue to run CORRECTLY at any angle. however I have yet to see an outboard carb setup that was more than a standard float bowl carb. granted we all know our trikes run for a bit upside down, and with a fuel pump (on all outboards) it could keep the float bowl full, but at that point you are dumping fuel through the main jet instead of sucking it, it will flood out.

[El Camexican]

I think someone needs to make a purpose built horizontal 2 stroke v8 engine for this exact reason.

Now THAT I agree with! Twin cranks and a bank of four CR500 cylinders on each side. 4.0 liters of ring a ding ding ready to come on pipe at a moments notice.. I’ve had it all worked out in my head since I was 16, I just need a couple hundred grand to get it built and running! However, if you want it coupled to a transmission I’ll require additional funds.

[slashfan7964]

I made mention of that on Dirt Wheels page (I think it was them). They were making a vtwin motor with two CR500 motors and putting it in a Banshee. I told them to make a V8 out of it.

[trike savior]

Camexican. why 2 cranks, whole bunch of extra moving parts, weight and friction. all on one crank shaft.

my idea has always been to combine the ideas of a 2 stroke, and a 4 stroke. by using a piston with a longer skirt and an oil ring down at the bottom, one could have a 2 stroke up top and not have a crank case to fill at the bottom. you would need minimal oil added to the fuel just to lubricate the cylinder. then you could use conventional 4 stroke bottom end oiling to keep things lubricated. i would still like to use ball bearings but pump oil straight too them. to keep too much lower end oil from getting to the top end, all you would need is a dry sump oiling system. would definitely require some long rods though since the skirt could not be allowed to enter the crank case. i was thinking bigger than 4.0 litres though at least 5.0 or 5.7. definitely 4" bore at least

would not be fuel efficient, so it would not revolutionize anything, but would make tons of power and satisfy us 2 stroke nuts.

[rg97]

Also the two front cylinders on my RZ500 were horizontal.

[fabiodriven]

Camexican. why 2 cranks, whole bunch of extra moving parts, weight and friction. all on one crank shaft.

my idea has always been to combine the ideas of a 2 stroke, and a 4 stroke. by using a piston with a longer skirt and an oil ring down at the bottom, one could have a 2 stroke up top and not have a crank case to fill at the bottom. you would need minimal oil added to the fuel just to lubricate the cylinder. then you could use conventional 4 stroke bottom end oiling to keep things lubricated. i would still like to use ball bearings but pump oil straight too them. to keep too much lower end oil from getting to the top end, all you would need is a dry sump oiling system. would definitely require some long rods though since the skirt could not be allowed to enter the crank case. i was thinking bigger than 4.0 litres though at least 5.0 or 5.7. definitely 4" bore at least

would not be fuel efficient, so it would not revolutionize anything, but would make tons of power and satisfy us 2 stroke nuts.

OK so now would be the time to bring up a Detroit two stroke diesel. They're probably my favorite internal combustion engine. trike savior, if you look at how those work I bet it's at least somewhat similar to what you're describing.

[Billy Golightly]

My goal in life is to have a some great big outboard 2 stroke motor, and put it in some little crap box econo car from the early 90s (Like a geo metro) and make the ultimate sleeper out of it.

[rg97]

Good luck with the sleeper part. If the sound doesn't tip them off the smoke will

Knowing a geo metro, the smoke WONT tip them off!
Why not put it in something 4wd like a suzuki jimny or a geo tracker

[DohcBikes]

Knowing a geo metro, the smoke WONT tip them off

LOL so true. Good luck finding a Jimny.....

Off topic sorry...but I know a guy that has a Geo Tracker with a Ford 302 in it. Scary.

[trike savior]

Fabio, i am a diesel mechanic as well and know about the Detroit 2 stroke. it is actually my proof of concept that this mix of theory's/ ideas can work. the reason they built the diesel 2 stroke is it made a ton of power, the reason they don't make any more is inefficient and could never pass modern emissions.

If someone did build this engine, i do not think they could sell it to the public at all because of getting past emissions standards. booooooooo

Camexican. it would look like a flathead V8 and a OHV V8 did the dirty and this would be there child. the block would look similar to a OHV V8, with a wide lifter valley in the middle. no need for a cam, so all of your rectangle intake ports go in that area and then your individual reed cages. Obviously then on the outside would be your exhaust ports. then you would run flathead style heads on the block. Water cavities would stay and work the traditional way.

the cool part would be intakes. just like the old hotrods run the individual carbs or injection with the tall trumpet stacks. however with the way technology has gone these days i have made some changes to what i would do. GDI (Gaseous Direct Injection) is a beautiful thing gaining roughly a 30% power/ efficency increase over putting the charge in the intake. So i think that is the way i would go, put the charge directly in the cylinder. however now you have the problem of cylinder lubrication. so an oil injector would be needed in the intake to shoot oil at the piston skirt when it is at top dead center. More moving parts, but i think it would insure lubrication, max power and efficiency.

these ideas also make it more like a diesel, with GDI there is no need for throttle blades, even cooler than that, no need for a starter. they think electric starters will go by the wayside with this technology when they get the programming better. it has a cam and crank sensor so it knows what cylinder is where and on what stroke. whichever one is past TDC on compression, the computer can fire the injector and spark plug and the motor starts itself. That is cool.

the main reason i know about the 2 stroke diesel is my college engines class teacher. it was one of his favorites to teach. My high school engines teacher had a different favorite that is really cool if you want to check it out. the Offenhauser 270. Twin overhead cam, canted valve (hemi style) combustion chamber UNI-BLOCK. meaning head and block 1 piece, no head gasket. Imagine an engine you could put unlimited boost to and not have to worry about blowing head gaskets or warping the mating surface. all you have to worry about is blow by past the rings. It was also really efficient. these engines were used in indy cars back in the day, and i am sure many of you will recognize the name which is synonymous with old school go fast parts for many manufacturer engines.

[oscarmayer]

billy, drop it into a 2000 2dr Subaru Impreza, get a adapter plate made so you can use the factory tras and you will have AWD. you could even install the STi drive-line with the bullet proof 6-speed to be safe. your good for 650hp with the STi trans and drive-line setup.