So... this is bad, right?

[thatguy]

I got the bike couple days ago and been getting it going by cleaning the tank, new petcock, possibly carb if needed. I drove it up and down the guys driveway few times and I bought it around dusk. Also its been down in my dark basement since so I havent really inspected it. I noticed oil under the bike before i bought it but figured theres likely oil on underside of a lot of these that have been sitting. I could tell where the guy kept the biike in his garage and saw no oil stains on the floor. There have been no oil drops on the floor in by basement over the last few days either so I was like cool, probly just oil thats been there for a while on the underside of the bike. Checked oil level tonight and its bone dry! haha i stuck a flashlight down in the filler hole and saw none. So now i know why its not leaking now.. theres nothing in there to leak out!

I couldnt see any obvious cracks or major bad things so i guess ill just make sure theres oil in in when i start it up next time and keep an eye on it... are these motors known to leak oil? hoping if theres a leak its just a slight one

[LastFoolerInVA]

just by looking at the pics... I would guess the seal on the drive sprocket shaft... I don't think that is the official "Honda" term but that seal loves to go bad... it's prob. original... it also looks like the head gasket is leaking a lil bit...

[kb0nly]

I would pop the sprocket cover off and look for damage, make sure it doesn't have a hole from a chain break. The seal on the output shaft does like to go bad, they aren't that bad to change. The other common places the 200's like to leak oil is the seal behind the recoil that the crankshaft basket/pulley rides in, and also the o-ring on the right rear head dowel, which appears yours is leaking there as well since its dark and wet with oil where the head meets the cylinder. All fixable though.

The fact that you totally ran out of oil i would find out where the problem is, because if its leaking enough to go dry then you could be riding when the seal or whatever is causing it finally fails totally and you puke out all your oil in a matter of feet and ruin the top end. The cam and head will be the first to die, then the bottom end starts to convert to a paperweight... LOL

I have seen 200's take out the cam in minutes without proper oil flow to the top end. Ideally the oil well under the cam should keep the lobes lubed a while, but without oil flow through the cam to lube the front and rear races it will chew up pretty fast. I saw one filled with metal shavings and it only ran like 10 minutes.

[Larry T Moore]

my 85 200s made the same mess..it was the O-ring seal around the drain plug

[dougspcs]

I'm with Larry, start with the simple stuff..

A can of engine cleaner, change the oil and be sure to change out the plug Oring.

Then ride it for a few days and recheck.

You can't source a leak thru that mess!

[kb0nly]

Looking at the pic again, as wet as it is up on top between the left cover and the cylinder i would also check the o-ring on the timing hole cap, they like to weep oil as well when that o-ring hardens up. Also look around where the electric starter goes into the left cover, there is an o-ring on the front end of the starter to seal it into the hole it goes in. Its not hard to pull the starter and put a new o-ring on that as well if its leaking.

I agree with doug, a good wash down with some engine degreaser, oil change, replace the o-ring on the drain cap and maybe that timing hole cap. If you have access to a pressure washer, or can load it up and take it to the local car wash i would spray it down with degreaser let it soak a while and then blast that sucker down.

For sure you have a leak at the head gasket o-ring seeing the black ring where the head meets the cylinder, but those can slowly leak for years without losing enough oil to cause problems, they just weep slowly. If you end up fixing that your going to be pulling the motor out of the frame so you can tear off the top end, so its a whole new can of worms to open up, so fix the worst leak first!

[thatguy]

cool thanks guys, i finally have time to wash it today and get her all prettied up.

As for these o-rings you keep talking about.. i know what they are, but where do i buy these? are they specific for the bike or do i just measure them and replace with another of same size from a pack of generic ones?

[kb0nly]

I usually just take the old o-rings off and hit my local auto parts store or Napa and have them size match them to the old ones. The new ones might look a tiny bit smaller for the inside diameter because the old ones are stretched from being on the part and hardened with age, but i bet you can find the ones you need locally.

If you have an ATV place nearby they can probably cross the Honda part numbers but they are going to charge you a few bucks or more a piece, the ones i get locally at Napa or Advance Auto are like $.75 each... LOL

Once you got it all clean and replace those o-rings and do an oil change run it a while, get it up to temp, once its warm check your shifter shaft as well for oil, the seal on the shifter shaft likes to leak also. Hard to tell with all the oil you got on the bottom but that and the main output shaft seal could be the cause for a lot of the oil as well. Won't know till you narrow it down with a few bucks in o-rings and some elbow grease!

[kb0nly]

One more thing, i clicked on your first pic to get a bigger image of it, took me to photobucket and i saw you had another pic that you didnt post here showing upward towards the oil drain plug and the recoil. Looks like a lot of gunk built up around the neutral indicator shaft that comes through the recoil covers bottom right corner. Watch that area as well, the neutral indicator has an oil seal on it as well behind the recoil. My 200ES which is basically the same motor other than being shaft instead of chain starting leaking there last summer and i had to replace that one as well.

If any of the seals are leaking you can get a seal kit to replace them all for under $20 on eBay.

[thatguy]

awesome info! i was going to clean out the oil filter and filter rotor and in order to get to the oil filter rotor i need to remove the crankcase cover. Can I do this and reinstall it easily without a new gasket or that liquid gasket maker stuff? Can i just take it off, clean the filter rotor and put it back on?

Also, while on gasket subject, my pullstart handle does not exist, but there is a hole where the rope should be. There looks like evidence of that gasket maker stuff and i dont want to take this recoil starter off until i know i can put it back on... will i need a new gasket for this as well? surely its not as easy as just bolting it back on..? im not that lucky

[dougspcs]

awesome info! i was going to clean out the oil filter and filter rotor and in order to get to the oil filter rotor i need to remove the crankcase cover. Can I do this and reinstall it easily without a new gasket or that liquid gasket maker stuff? Can i just take it off, clean the filter rotor and put it back on?

As far as the pull start, unbolt and split it off there to see what goes on..if you are lucky just a broken rope. Clean it up, rewind the spring with a new rope and handle.

Side cover gasket..just play it safe and buy a replacement gasket..95% chance it'll tear when you remove it.

Clean the surface, use spray gasket bond to make the gasket stick to the side cover..then use a finger smear worth of petroleum jelly all the way around on the side of the gasket that goes against the engine side.

This will ensure you can take the side cover on/off every year to clean the rotor without ever having to replace the gasket.

[kb0nly]

To add to what doug said...

There is a gasket on the recoil as well, if they gooped it up with RTV clean all that crap off and get the gasket for it. Also when you repair the recoil make sure you get the correct handle, it has a cup that fits over the rope hole so that water can't get in. There is a weep hole at the bottom of the recoil, its a notch in the aluminum cover. Thats why i said get the correct gasket because if you use RTV your likely to plug that little slot up then when water gets in from a wet recoil rope or condensation builds up then it can't drain out.

http://dratv.com/pustkn2.html

Thats an example of the handle, you can see what i mean by a cup that goes down over the rope hole.

If you buy the bottom end gasket kit you will get the recoil gasket and the right cover gasket, and also the centrifugal oil filter gasket. Since you need so many of the gaskets, i would just buy the bottom end kit and save a little money. Gets more expensive buying them all separately.

I can guarantee that right cover gasket will rip, i havent had one come off in one piece yet, but if you somehow get lucky and it does i would bet money on you ruining the gasket on the centrifugal oil filter. That one ALWAYS goes to heck.

[thatguy]

cool i found a full gasket set for the bike on ebay, but cant find the bottom only. Lots of top end kits!

anyway i think ill grab the full kit for $25+Sh so i have them all. Theres a bunch of gaskets in there so ill have fun figuring out which is which, especially the round ones!

i pulled the screen filter out of the bottom today and some oil drained out, maybe a full 8oz! it was so black and thick it was scary! also had a metallic look, as if tiny tiny metal pieces so thats scary also! i guess once i get the fuel system replaced/cleaned and oil in the belly and the motor running i will start looking for leaks and replacing gaskets.

[barnett468]

Hello thatguy;


i would do the following:

if you still have the old oil, drag a magnet through it. it metal sticks it is steel [bad] if it doesn't it is less bad.

remove the rocker adjusting caps and inspect the cam for signs of heavy grooves etc.

set the valves per manual below.

remove the clutch cover and see if something is wearing, then disassemble clutch and clean everything thoroughly.

clean/replace filters as suggested.

install a magnetic drain plug or stick a small neodymium magnet to it per member Tri Again.

Install around 1/2 quart of Rislone or other engine cleaner from the auto parts store. Calculate how much you need, Mr. Mackey says too much is bad.

Install any oil with high levels of ZDDP like Valvoline VR-1 car oil. It's cheaper than motorcycle oil.

Run bike gently on flat surfaces for around an hour total.

dump the oil while it is still warm and let it drain for around at least 15 minutes.

install oil designed for wet clutch engines like Valvoline Motorcycle or ATV oil. it is available at most auto parts stores.

some oil leaks are hard to see. i think Tri Again blasts the engine with flour to make them more visible. I think spray can Desenex foot powder or similar might work also.

[tri again]

Neodymium magnets, like a pencil eraser and will pick up
a 12" crescent wrench and will draw blood if snapped together,
have found their way onto all my drain plugs.
5 or 6 bucks for 4 locally or 20 for 5 bucks ebay.

and x 2-3- and more, gasket sealer can easily find its way into the engine.
I glue gaskets to the cover and let it dry. Nice and flat, maybe even weighted a little and pressed .
IF I need silicon, I go super thin and let it dry like a rubber band so the gasket stays intact
when pulling covers.