An uninteresting 200x thread

[barnett468]

I may have missed some of these posts, I don't know what's going on up there. I stopped reading Barnett's posts within two weeks of his arrival and I can't change that now regardless of if he says anything pertinent or not. I simply just wouldn't know.

"Howdy" fabiodriven;

I know you don't like it when I start my posts off with "Hello" so I thought I'd go easy on you and change my greeting.

I understand that my posts give you a headache as you mentioned before [lol], however, I don’t understand the point of you telling us on this thread that you don't read them anymore since the title of this thread is, “An uninteresting 200x thread.", and NOT, “Hey, I just thought I'd let everyone know I don't read Barnetts posts anymore.”, lol.

Redsox, who is the op of the thread btw, has thanked me as well as some others for our information. I'm guessing he appreciates yours also, and imo [as if it matters], an op's opinion of the posts is the most important one.

The rest of this stuff seems stupid basic. Yeah don't scratch the mating surfaces, der. I certainly wouldn't toss a jug or case that had a gouged mating surface, I'd plane it then fill it with JB Weld. No biggie.

Just for clarification for others, rg97 is the one that made the comment I think fabiodriven is referring to, which included, if you scratch it you will “need a new jug and/or cylinder.". I do like the way he has learned how to use the term/phrase, "and/or" from me at he very least. Anyway, rg97 then wanted me to give him credit for this statement as if he might have thought his post had no merit unless I acknowledged it. That seems a bit bizarre to me, however, perhaps since you have mentioned it here, it might be sufficient acknowledgement for him.

It also seems to me that he might not have ever seen the JB Weld you speak of or is simply unaware of its many varied uses, as imo, you appear to be.

redsox,
If you want to do what barnett suggested with a putty knife watch that you dont hit a stud. That would be a headache. Also watch that you dont scratch the mating surfaces. If you do, when you replace the gaskets it won't seal right and you'll need a new jug and/or case.

For everyone’s info, I actually acknowledged everyone’s post on this thread.

Post 41.

I refer you to posts 1 thru 33 for most of your answers, lol. Again, I would measure, measure, measure.

Since as you implied, you won't be reading this post because it's mine, perhaps someone like DohcBikes might post a synopsis of it for you so you are up to speed on the latest "intel".

Yes I realize that there are no pretty pictures to draw your attention to my posts, but......

Hello DohcBikes;


Hey, first of all, I want the name of the person that taught you how to do multiple quotes!

In post 31.

I would measure ring gaps, piston, and cylinder at the minimum unless it was running perfect.

Uh, even though there were NO pretty pictures to look at in your post, I not only saw AND read it, if you look at the bottom of it when you sober up and your eyes hopefully regain focus, you might see that I was also the FIRST person to click ”Like this post.”, so have no fear, even though there are NO pretty pictures I have NOT forgotten you, lol.

I was simply elaborating on your post with specific details once I saw redsox’s piston.

thanks for explaining further

Barnett said one time that Honda is perfect.

No one here would EVER believe that I said that, lol.

thanks for explaining further

Here, have some more beer.

[barnett468]

It's his THREAD, he can do what he wants

Uh, you can put away your hangmans noose and silly red face emoticon there Dirtcrasher. Contrary to the conclusion you appear to be jumping to, my comment was meant in jest with no ill will intended, however, I am aware of the unfortunate need for some people to convict/condemn hastily without first determining or reviewing the FACTS which imo, is EXACTLY what you are doing to me here.

Redsox, who is the op of the thread btw, has thanked me as well as some others for our information. I'm guessing he appreciates yours also, and imo [as if it matters], an op's opinion of the posts is the most important one.

FYI, Redsox made the comment below to me in post 25. Since my nature is not to view everyone’s comments to me as ill willed, I interpreted it as being funny and clicked “Like this post.” Underneath it.

Post 25.

You ALMOST made it through without the oil jargon!!! haha. lots of good info. much appreciated.

You can apologize or not.

You can play 3WW Sheriff or not.

You can "report" my post or not.

You can...

[barnett468]

Hello redsox;

I sent you a pm.

[redsox]

i watched about an hour of video last night on youtube re honing cylinders. it ain't no thing but a chicken wing. i can handle it. so, i'm measuring the piston today and ordering what i need. i'll hone, clean, and prep everything while i wait for shipping. i'll lap the valves, new valve seals, and reassemble. i'm gonna keep it simple here, and have a nice, useable rider.

as for the malarkey, lets try and keep it between the lines. sarcasm and hilarity will be greatly rewarded, but whining and bickering will not be tolerated.

[DohcBikes]

I believe its "no thang but a chicken Wang"

ohhh wait a minute that doesnt look so good when its typed out

Flex hone: keep it lubed

Slowwwwww speed on the drill

Fast up and down, quick changes of direction, measure the cylinder as you proceed.

You still need to measure everything!!!


GUYS CAN WE DO THIS COMMUNITY A FAVOR, PUT ON OUR GROWN UP HATS AND QUIT ACTING LIKE CHILDREN? WE DONT NEED GROWN MEN TELLING OTHERS WHAT TO POST AND WHERE TO POST IT. THE SITE HAS OWNERS AND MODS FOR THAT.

IF YOU DONT GET THE HUMOR THEN WHY RESPOND? BECAUSE YOU SOUND LIKE A FREAKIN BABY WHEN YOU WHINE ABOUT IT.

End rant, carry on.

[barnett468]

i watched about an hour of video last night on youtube re honing cylinders. it ain't no thing but a chicken wing. i can handle it. so, i'm measuring the piston today and ordering what i need. i'll hone, clean, and prep everything while i wait for shipping. i'll lap the valves, new valve seals, and reassemble. i'm gonna keep it simple here, and have a nice, useable rider.

as for the malarkey, lets try and keep it between the lines. sarcasm and hilarity will be greatly rewarded, but whining and bickering will not be tolerated.

Yeah the honing is easy. the mistake sime people make is spinning the hone too fast and not going up and down or in and out fast enough [yeah that doesn't sound too good so take that how you will, lol].

I usually hone the bore for around 15 seconds after which I'm done. If you hone it much longer than this, it might make it too loose.

A hand held hone will NOT true a cylinder.




As DohcBikes mentioned in line 3 of post 31 at 8:57 pm on 2-17-2014 which he likely made from his voice activated tablet while sitting in his back yard in Glendale Arizona next to a roaring flame fueled by cardboard boxes while suckin back a frosty one, it should have a cross hatch pattern. See his comment quoted below and God help me if I left somethin out, lol.

If you can't see the crosshatch its a good idea to hone it.

Anyway you want to achieve lines that are basically an X pattern so spin slow and go in and out fast and please do not post a video.

Also, I like to spray WD40 on it before I hone the bore. Ok, I’m givin up, this is just goin into the toilet now.




CLEANING THE BORE - Ok, this is far from being as easy as it seems in my experience and there are several ways to do this. Below is just one.

1. Clean in solvent tank or spray with carb or brake cleaner.

2. Wait until the old lady is gone than toss a rubber mat in the kitchen sink and fill it with warm water and liquid dish soap. Dawn or ones with citrus in them like Lemon Joy are best imo. Ok, now I’m startin to sound like a pansie.

Anyway, scrub is with a brush then rinse it off thoroughly with warm water.

3. Put some WD40 or lacquer thinner on a white paper towel and wipe the inside. If it comes out clean you are done. Just spray some WD or similar in it to keep it from rusting until you are ready to install it.

[barnett468]

I believe its "no thang but a chicken Wang"

ohhh wait a minute that doesnt look so good when its typed out

Flex hone: keep it lubed

Slowwwwww speed on the drill

Fast up and down, quick changes of direction, measure the cylinder as you proceed.

You still need to measure everything!!!

SON OF A "BLEEPIN" FARMER, I started my post in the post window before yours so I didn't see it until AFTER I posted, lol.

Now i look like a M O R O N because I HAVE NO EDIT BUTTON!

I think I'll just go to bed, yes I know, thank goodness.

HEY, at least I told him one way he could clean it after he honed it.

[DohcBikes]

Hey nothing wrong with some AGREEMENTS now and then eh??

[redsox]

Hello redsox;


PS – Just curious, how did you get the cylinder off?

it wasn't that bad coming off. i'd just run out of time the night before. i used a rubber mallet and worked my way around until it came loose. broke a small bit off the front lower cooling fin. i was afraid of the and putty knife idea, but would have tried it if necessary.

I'm not sure how far you're going with this machine, but if you're just going to be using it like we normally do and it's not a race bike or a show piece the answer is simple to me. If it were mine, I'd have the bore and piston measured. If a hone is all it needs and it's a factory piston, I'd hone it, re-ring it, and throw it back together. If it needed a bore then I'd have it bored and use a Honda piston. Just how I'd go about it personally.

agreed john. what i "could" do is not the same as what i "need to" do. i don't know if you've seen this machine but its the one my cousin kevin has been riding. i'm just looking for reliability. i'm not afraid to spend $ on whats needed, but i want to keep things simple, and get it done and back together. its got new bearings, a new clutch, new brakes, a fresh carb and new cables. we're getting there.

I've had good,success with G&H on both my 200x and 110. Im sure they would use oem parts or whatever you want as long as they sell you the parts. They did my head and cylinder on my x and it took about two weeks

thanks. that's what i was hoping for.

It's his THREAD, he can do what he wants

i like the little angry emoji, but it dosen't suit you! your a pillar of positivity bud.

Hello redsox;

I sent you a pm.

PM recieved. I'm no medical doctor, but i'd get that thing looked at! In the long run, I guess if the horse is ok, then its water under the bridge.

Hey nothing wrong with some AGREEMENTS now and then eh??

bingo. i'm the one asking for help here. i appreciate ANYONE taking the time to read this and throw out opinions and suggestions. i'll sort through all the junk, get what i need, and be thankful for it. for the record, barnett pm'd me kind of apologizing for all the baggage his posts bring with them to the thread because of old beefs or whatever. i thought that was pretty Fred Blassie. I'll be home and wrenching soon. lets press on and get through this thing.

[Dirtcrasher]

Well, all I can add from personal experience is that I have honed dozens of cylinders with a fast in and out but a slow revolution on the lubricated ball hone. Ends up from 30degrees to 45degrees. It never takes off .002, maybe in a Sunnen honing machine but not by the method that has served me well for 25 years. One crucial step which may have been mentioned, is to completely clean all cylinders bored or honed in warm soapy water to remove any hidden traces of fine metal after a hone,bore or contamination. Dry it fast and some light oil will prevent the "flash rust".


FACT, I have rebuilt too many motors to recall and they never blew up; Not 1 motor I built blew up!!, so I'm doing something right. Then the 4 strokes came along with the shims on top of the valves and I started rebuilding those as well. My friend said it best, "every motor you build me starts on the 1st kick!!" made me feel good Gotta take pride in your work.


I also like to chase all threads with a tap, making sure 1.5X the diameter is the length needed for optimum thread strength. For example, those 6x1.0 pitch case bolts need to be 9mm thread length, more is not necessary. I learned this when working with a toolmaker as well as owning my own machine shop.


Check ALL gasket or honda-bond mating surfaces with a fine stone such as a toolmakers stone with WD40 and watch the high spots disappear!! Remove the dowel pins and clean them, then lightly oil them and reinstall them for an easy re-assembly. These issues you may find are from prior owners that smashed mating surfaces apart, and back together. Most motors have a casting "boss" for a brass drift and light to avoid damage to the surfaces.


I also apply grease to my clutch cover, stator side cover gaskets and some others and don't have leaks; The gasket can be re-used. New gaskets crushed for the first time are nice, however, my method has not failed me in a situation when a clutch is lost and you don't have the gasket. Of course it is not a practice to be done on base or cylinder head gaskets. If you had a 2 stroke, I would recommend using a pointy punch on the base mount with about 5 dimples on each thin side as sometimes those can be "suked" in the crank (seen it), but we have a 4 stroke here so I shall continue.


You are more than welcome to bring that machine down and we can cover more than you have read as why it is done a certain way. Fully heated shop with any tool you could possibly need. It's nice when you understand why the cam spins more times than the crank and WHY! TDC, timing, 180 out and other discussions can be educating. I would not charge you one dime as I enjoy your company.


It's also time to yank the clutch cover and clean the "oil filter rotor" which is a centrifugal type of oil filter rather than a paper oil filter element such as on your 86/87 250SX. Look at the damage to that top end, that damage all goes in the oil filter rotor and some out the left side steel mesh filter.


We can also discuss your kickstarter gears if a shim for the engagement of the gears or back cutting them has been done with good results. Especially when you replace the top end with a greater compression piston than OEM. This area has been a demon of 83/84 and 85 200X's. The 86/87 200X solved that issue.

[lokisbuddy]

I have a friend who's a very talented machinist, well two actually if you include Steve as well, but this other guy does boring and sleeving. My first job was working for him in high school. He told me OEM is the way to go and that's all I needed to hear.

I have nothing whatsoever against oem but I have been using wiseco pistons in everything I own and I had a .20 over wiseco in my xr for 6 years and I abused her like a Detroit whore till the frame broke I then took the piston out, re ringed it and its now happily seated in my 200x jug its all a matter of preference I suppose.

[redsox]

I have nothing whatsoever against oem but I have been using wiseco pistons in everything I own and I had a .20 over wiseco in my xr for 6 years and I abused her like a Detroit whore till the frame broke I then took the piston out, re ringed it and its now happily seated in my 200x jug its all a matter of preference I suppose.

i don't think wiseco is a bad product. i also don't think anyone else is suggesting that wiseco is bad. but, as the rebuild is for stock durability, and not performance enhancement, i think the suggestion was leading me towards oem. the stock piston, which has undoubtedly taken a smokin' beating, has been rocking for 30 years and it don't look bad. if this were a differnt build, i'd probably go wiseco.

[lokisbuddy]

i don't think wiseco is a bad product. i also don't think anyone else is suggesting that wiseco is bad. but, as the rebuild is for stock durability, and not performance enhancement, i think the suggestion was leading me towards oem. the stock piston, which has undoubtedly taken a smokin' beating, has been rocking for 30 years and it don't look bad. if this were a differnt build, i'd probably go wiseco.

you're right I was just tossing my 2 cents in so a stray reader to let them know that if you take care of your engine like I and many others take care of theirs a wiseco will last a long time even if you beat it like it owed you money

[fabiodriven]

I've used plenty of Wiseco pistons, they're great. I'd use OEM first though unless I were trying to bump the compression.

[barnett468]

it wasn't that bad coming off. i used a rubber mallet and worked my way around until it came loose. broke a small bit off the front lower cooling fin. i was afraid of the and putty knife idea, but would have tried it if necessary.

Unfortunately now you know why I suggested the putty knife method. There is occasionally a method to my madness, lol. I have used it a zillion times with nominal to 0 damage.

If you want to try and reinstall the broken fin piece, you can try the JB Weld fabiodriven referred to for fixing gouges, however, a more durable method is to simply buy some of that low temp aluminum rod you might have seen on TV or at swap meets where a guy is “welding” a thin aluminum can with it. It is available at all welding supply stores.

Don’t use an oxy/acetylene torch on it, der, lol.




WISECO BRIEF HISTORY - Their pistons used to be less than great back in the 70's but they were the only non oem option available at the time for two strokes. Harry Klemm and Dave Miller used them in the team race bikes at DG and FMF. Their failure rate was extremely high with the likes of Gary Denton and Warren Reid beatin the livin bejesus out of them in the 125 pro class.

They have gone through a few changes since and are vastly improved. Harry runs them in his AHRMA Championship winning Kawi tripple. After a full season and many street miles, he tore it down and found minimal wear.

It's also time to yank the clutch cover and clean the "oil filter rotor"…

OMG, he mentioned oil…can I PLEEEEASE talk about oil now, huh can I?