looking for help with a 1988 honda atc250 big red

[joe83hd]

I have a 1988 honda atc 250 big red that is hard to start with the electric start. It cranks over fine and seems to be cranking at a good speed every so often it will start right up the majority of the time it will not you have to crank it alot for it to start but if you kick start it, it fires off on the first kick and run very good. I have been over the carb, have checked the spark while cranking it over, have done a top end rebuild because it was a little low on compression, completely rebuilt the head laping the valves in and checking for a good seal, when you crank it with the electric starter for a while and pull the plug out it doesn't seem to be wet from gas and as you crank it i have held my hand over the carb and it doesn't seem to be creating any suction. Does anyone have any ideas on what else i can check or have had the same problem?

[dougspcs]

Well my 1st thought, and not to get off topic too far..

You said 1988?? Is this verified? If so it's the only one I've ever heard of on this continent!! We only had the 85-87s here.

There have been some 88s verified to exist in Australia and the UK as well I believe..but not here.

Enquiring mind want to know!!

Now onto your symptoms..I know you've already tackled it but my 1st bet is carb.

Suggest you send it to a professional rebuilder (FlyingW)..it's be the last time you'll ever have to touch that carb.

[joe83hd]

I have check the year it is a 1986. I feel pretty good about the carb because it will kick start on the first kick and runs great. This is the second one I have seen with these simptoms the first one had broken the starter gears and when I got the new oem gears one gear had one less tooth then the original and it seemed to crank slower but Honda said it shouldn't make a difference. the guy just kicked it and was ok with that. Just a little more back ground on me I have been working on atv's and small engines for 30 years and this is racking my brain. Not sure what to check next. To me if it is a carb problem wouldn't it show up while kick starting it?

[atc007]

Recheck your valve clearance. Set it between .003 and .004

[joe83hd]

I will triple check them

[kebby28]

Are you sure its cranking as fast as its supposed to? Sometimes when a starter goes bad it will crank slower. This has happened to me. Put a new starter in it and realized the engine actually cranks allot faster. And the sound of the started can make it sound like the engine is turning plenty when its actually not.... just sayin

[joe83hd]

Does anyone now what the cranking rpm should be for the electric starter, if so I can check that, I have an old manual rpm gauge that I could put on the end of the crank shaft while I try and start it.

[dougspcs]

I have check the year it is a 1986. I feel pretty good about the carb because it will kick start on the first kick and runs great. This is the second one I have seen with these simptoms the first one had broken the starter gears and when I got the new oem gears one gear had one less tooth then the original and it seemed to crank slower but Honda said it shouldn't make a difference. the guy just kicked it and was ok with that. Just a little more back ground on me I have been working on atv's and small engines for 30 years and this is racking my brain. Not sure what to check next. To me if it is a carb problem wouldn't it show up while kick starting it?

You don't have to impress how long you've been working on ATVs, I'm just a guy whos had an aZZload of three wheelers over the years and had the same symptoms you are describing..isn't that what you are asking for and why you showed up here?

The only reason I'm trying to impress on you that possibility of carb is because I've had this very same condition last year on my brothers 250ES(plus a couple Yamaha's in the past)..started perfect on the kick and intermittantly on crank when cold, but once warm the kicker was the only way to get it going.

Nothing about the symptom made sense as with yours, a couple guys on here said 'clean the carb'..reluctantly I did. Problem solved..

Now it's a tricky carb to get dial in just right and though it fixed his problem it still have some carb bogg..so I sent it to FlyingW for rebuild, now it's perfect.

Too bad about the 88 thing..

[joe83hd]

How can I get in touch with FlyingW? I will also check the starter and cables out tonight and recheck the valves.

[barnett468]

Hello joe83hd;


I would check the things above, imo the problem is that it is too lean and/or it is not generating enough voltage [spark] with the starter for various reasons.

How much choke is required to start?

How much throttle?

What is the air temp when first starting it?

Does it start with the starter when it is warmed up?

Here’s just some options.

OLD GAS – dump it if it is 6 months old or looks yellow.

CORN GAS – Dump it if it is 3 months old.


Lay the plug on the head and look at it when using the starter then the kick starter. Let us know if there is a visible difference in the intensity of the spark and what the spark color is.


Get a volt meter that records [memorizes] peak voltages. Unplug the black wire with the red stripe or red band coming from the stator and check the voltage while running the starter, then while kicking it over.

Post the results. It should have a minimum of around 35 volts which is weak, 45 would be good.

Check the same wire for ohms. It should be between 100 and 400.

If the ohms are low the coil is likely weak. I would replace it.

If the ohms are high but the voltage is low then it is possible your ign flywheel has lost some magnetism.


Check the coil per manual but this doesn’t always tell much. Some people say theirs tested bad but worked fine, lol.


Wiring diagram. See 15-1 for electrical specs.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/content...C250ES-Big-Red


orig manual for 200es but it should help. might take 7 minutes to download.

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manual...0es_bigred.pdf




CARB GAS LEVEL CHECK

I would check the actual gas level first by doing the following:

1. get a small 10” long piece of clear plastic tube.
2. connect it to the float bowl drain fitting.
3. hold it close to the carb with the open end even with the top of the carb.
4. open the gas valve on the tank and drain screw on the carb bowl.
5. the gas in the tube should be from even with the bottom of the main carb body to 3/16” below it. If it is outside this range, I would correct it.

[hublake]

I have an 85 BR that I have the same problem with when it is cold. The starter doesn't seem to turn the motor over fast enough. I will remove the right side cover and give it a kick start a couple of time and it takes right off. I know 85s had a cold weather starting problem, but I found kick starting solved the problems and was cheap. Also try a new plug.

[DohcBikes]

Recheck your valve clearance. Set it between .003 and .004

^^^^ Don't skip this part.

[joe83hd]

Once i go through and check all of your sugestions i'll get back to you with the resaults it may take me a couple of afternoons to check it all. Thanks for the sugestions.

[dougspcs]

How can I get in touch with FlyingW? I will also check the starter and cables out tonight and recheck the valves.

Stand in the center of the room, click your heals together three times and repeat.."there's no carbs like Jim's, there's no carbs like Jim's, there's no carbs like Jim's"..this will most certainly summon him!!

But if that doesn't work you can do it the old fashion way..at the top of this page click 'Notifications', then 'Inbox' to open your mail. Click on 'Send New Message' and in the 'Recipient Users' box type 'FlyingW'..then type him a message and send..

[tri again]

I have check the year it is a 1986. I feel pretty good about the carb because it will kick start on the first kick and runs great. This is the second one I have seen with these simptoms the first one had broken the starter gears and when I got the new oem gears one gear had one less tooth then the original and it seemed to crank slower but Honda said it shouldn't make a difference. the guy just kicked it and was ok with that. Just a little more back ground on me I have been working on atv's and small engines for 30 years and this is racking my brain. Not sure what to check next. To me if it is a carb problem wouldn't it show up while kick starting it?

I have THE exact problem.
Makes NO sense to me. If it was an old car, the starter can drag voltage, NOT speed, and pull juice from the ignition.
This is NOT the case as Honda has separate circuits for light and ignition.
aaaarrrrgh, just lost the rest of the story...
will start with 1/2 kick on compression stroke but not with 5 second FAST e spin.
New batt, new starter.

I'm with you my friend..makes no sense.
I recall that it WOULD e start when I let OFF the e starter if it was still spinning a little.
at the right time. say if I let the starter OFF on it's way to compression stroke.

now as I remember, I did NOthing and now it starts 1 second estart.
Probably just riding and jiggling cleared electrical connection?
I actually forgot it was a problem till your post.
wish I knew to be able to tell you.
If you do have carb suspicions, flying w is THE guru.