First Trike: 1985 250R No Spark *Check it out anyways, cool machine.

[Scooter95]

Hey everybody, brand new to the forum and actually bought my first trike this weekend believe it or not. Looked around locally trying pretty hard to find a decent 85 or 86 250R and was presented with this...(threw a beforehand photo as well)












Previous owner restored / modded the trike in the fall and winter of 2012; did a 450R swingarm conversion (whole rear end is essentially 450R) and went from the ground up with everything else (minus motor internals). However, it had been sitting since August of 2013.

I felt it was worth the seller's asking price so I decided to make the drive up to him (hour and a half or so) to check it out and probably take home with me, but about half way there he called and said he couldn't start it.

Ended up bringing her home with me anyways.

While at the PO's house, we looked for spark (felt the electricity) but saw none; he kind of boogered up the spark plug cap in doing so, but he was pretty confident that was the issue.

Any who, I got her home Saturday evening and started breaking down the basics hoping to have it running by the end of the night - didn't happen.

I went back to the spark plug and was actually able to get some spark, so I decided to check the carb thinking it might have been goo'ed up - it wasn't (cleaned it anyway).

The coil tested good, so I decided to make a temporary spark plug set up that should (<- key word) work since resistance ran through it all - didn't work.
*Machine is still getting a new coil + wire to cap + cap assembly.


From there I thought it could had been the CDI or another electronic piece fouling things up; I spent a good bit of Sunday and then this afternoon testing basically every electronic piece and piece of wire on the the machine for resistance in accordance to the service manual. It's pretty much all checked out so far.

The last thing I have to check is the AC Regulator and its wiring, so I guess my question is would that piece even affect spark? The only other issue I had was I wasn't able to get a resistance reading through the red-black wire from where it separates on the alternator line to the CDI plug-in, could that be it?

I was able to get the headlight to glow while trying to start it, don't know if that counts for anything.

But the engine feels like it has good compression (haven't gauged it yet); I don't think its a mechanical problem, but more a less a bad section of wire or connectors - I just can't find anything out of place

Seemed like a good deal, but all I've got at this point is a partially disassembled 250R and a bit of frustration & confusion.



Just so it doesn't get brought up, I did in fact do a search for no start / spark / intermittent spark / etc. before creating this - so go easy

Anything is welcome - advice, suggestions, opinions on the trike, etc.

[MattDragontamer]

Bummer...

Ok well lets go over this again:

1. Spark - Even thought you might have spark, the spark might not be powerfull enough. Get a new one.

2. Fuel, is your plug wet after a few turn overs? If so, you have fuel. If not, you are not getting fuel from the carb.

3. No spark, the alternator sends power to the CDI, then to the ignition coil. It's always good to have spare parts for the electronics for such trials. Get another CDI and Ignition coil to swap out one at a time to see if one is burnt out.

4. Grounding, make sure all grounding points are clean. The ignition coil has a ground to the frame that should send a residual energy to the engine through the metal to metal contact of the frame.

5. Kill switch, believe it or not, kill switches go bad... Yup, disconnect your kill switch. Choke the engine to kill it if you end up starting it.

6. Your rectifier has no say for the running or your engine. Just your lights.

7. Carb, set it to factory setting and idle high. If it starts, lower the idle.
Sometimes opening the air mix a 1/4 turn at a time helps, but you should not have to.

8. Worst case cenario, alternator is bad...

So yea, hope this helps.

[lilgsxr1000]

pull your flywheel cover and see if your counter balancer bearing holder is broke. back when I use to race my trx250r I use to break the stock ones and when they crack it will toss your ignition trigger into the flywheel and crack it. If it happens it will still show spark and sometimes will run half or will just not run. If your is cracked call ESR and get one of there billet ones they will last.

[JasonB]

first off welcome to the boards! Thats a nice 250R you picked up, spark can only be so many things. Matt covered a bunch of them, but I would keep messing with it. From what I gathered, you think its getting spark but arent 100%? Have you checked it with the lights out in the garage while rolling it over by hand? Keep searching and playing with it, it will be worth the hassle

[Scooter95]

Thanks for all the replies so far! There's been some great advice given, but I think I found the problem..

After doing some more reading and having the rest of the electrical check out (actually got a connection on the red-black wire), I decided to pull the flywheel case off after dinner.

Was immediately concerned after I pulled the first bolt out (first one on the upper level towards the fork) and saw it was fairly corroded with rust; luckily the other five were in perfectly fine condition.

As soon as I cracked the cover open it started raining rust and dirt like no tomorrow, anddd that's when I knew this semi-fishy deal became officially fishy

The whole alternator / stator / flywheel assembly looks like it's been sitting at the bottom of a lake for the last twenty years; explains why I couldn't get a consistent spark (at least to me).



Anyways, the problem I'm having now is I can't get the flywheel off and I saw the price of a replacement from a local dealer if I mess this one up

So two questions:
1. How do I get the flywheel off, should I just go buy a puller for it (if I can find one)?

2. I need to find a new coil + plug cab assembly, so which ones are good?

I still can't believe the PO said he "went through the engine and everything looked fine", but just goes to show don't ever trust people.

[c_hustle]

Nice trike!

[Scooter95]

Shouldn't this be working? Ran up to a dealer this morning and bought it thinking it was what I needed.

Started to thread it in but I'm pretty sure it got cross threaded on accident?





Never done this before..

[honda atc guy]

Shouldn't this be working? Ran up to a dealer this morning and bought it thinking it was what I needed.

Started to thread it in but I'm pretty sure it got cross threaded on accident?





Never done this before..

You bought "thinking" it was what you needed...maybe it isn't and the threads are not the right pitch. Therefore maybe, with a little luck, your threads are okay. I'm just guessing, but as long as you didn't goober up the threads you'll be okay. Make you have the right tool...I've seen them on eBay.

[NeverLift]

You have the correct tool. You need to get a wire wheel in there and clean the rust off those threads first then use some grease/anti seize on the puller. thread the puller into the flywheel a little bit at a time then back it out and repeat. You'll get it. That puller is used on tons of machines so keep it around.

[Scooter95]

I was fairly confident I purchased the correct puller (27x1mm left hand threads) to start with, but trying to clean the flywheel threads up was my next guess.

I think I can still make the puller work even though it's a bit goobered, but I'll run up to town and grab another one if I have to.

Worst case scenario I'll clean the flywheel up best I can without removing it and see what the spark situation is..

[MattDragontamer]

Wow, now here is a suggestion far ya. Get a handheld siphoning blasting kit, some glass bead and make a thick cardboard cut out that exposes the alternator housing but covers everything outside of it. Use the bolt holes and bolts to fasten it to the engine where the gasket runs. Then carefully blast all that rust away. The glass beed wont damage any internal parts or the wires as long as you don't constantly blast on them. Plug any holes that go inside the engine in that housing with rubber plugs or a good thick cap of aluminum tape. And clean it all after with some air. Make sure you are outside where you can make a mess and wear coveralls and blasting full head cover. The glass beads will be flying around quite a bit.

The parts should look as good as new. Replace your alternator and its electrical parts for good measure.

[Scooter95]

Well I managed to get the puller fully threaded on without messing the flywheel up and the thing popped right out!

Once you got past the flywheel, there really wasn't too much rust, just a lot of fine dust. Flywheel cleaned up pretty since, same for the other parts.

Hooked everything up again and was expecting my night to be made by an actual running 250R but once again didn't get diddly squat.



At this point I really don't have any new ideas on what could be going on.. definitely still need a new coil and spark plug assembly (maybe it's just that )

If anybody knows of forum members in the Denver area (or Colorado) who are good with this sort of thing, let me know

[Zakk]

scooter95 im a little bit south of you in Castle Rock, i certainly am not a 3 wheeler master but i'm pretty good. I am a restoration tech at Classic Mustangs LLC here in Castle Rock, and also a certified small engine tech. Me and my dad are currently rebuilding a Tri-z 250. i wouldnt mind helping out if needed, and maybe once we both get our trikes running we can go hit some trails!

[Damon64]

I'm gonna keep an eye on this thread and hope you get it running! I'm in the same boat as you right now and gonna try some of these ideas myself.

[The_Steve_Man]

Make sure everything tests to specifications . I just had some issues with mine recently. It ran fine and slowly started having jetting issues. It got to the point where I couldn't get it lean enough and then finally wouldn't start. I tested the coil and it was out of spec. Tested the stator and it was dead. I had 2 other coils and only one of those tested good. Replaced stator and coil and it runs like beast. I have learned to test everything when I get it so I dont assume its good.