Shifting with the clutch... why?

[6speedthumper]

I will say this, none of my machines have metal flakes, or chunks, in the oil. Always super clean. But, I'm a maintenance freak.

[Keith Salyer]

I use it to get holeshots or to regain control in the corners, but other than that I don't use while racing. If I am just putting around I will use it most of the time without thinking about it and I feel that clutches and transmissions are tougher than you think.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

You guys aren't getting it. The clutch is the component in the transmission group that is intended to bear the brunt of the wear and tear. When you take that component out of the picture, what is now going to take the abuse?

But anyway....... It's pointless to debate because one side is never going to convince the other side that they are wrong...


What is the best oil to run in my 250r?

[manbearpig]

There isnt a right an a wrong in this case. its obvious that both methods work. my initial inquiry was related to why people do what they do, not if damage was occurring.

[DohcBikes]

There isnt a right an a wrong in this case. its obvious that both methods work. my initial inquiry was related to why people do what they do, not if damage was occurring.

i have never, ever had a transmission component failure.

i see no point in letting go of the bars to grab that lever more often than you have to.

and dont tell me that its because its harder on internal components than using the lever. By using the lever, youre wearing your fibers faster...

Wwwweeellll, it sure was an open invitation for the people that know it's better to use it to tell you why. Hehe.

[manbearpig]

i said that with confidence that there is no damage occurring if done properly. those statements were made to eliminate the anticipated claim of "because its what youre supposed to do to not damage components." this is a claim i feel that would be made by an inexperienced/uneducated rider who's opinion, quite frankly, im not seeking

i wanted to hear from guys like Lou, keith salyer, STroberts, El, and dohc. guys i know can really ride, and ride often. seems like through their feedback one thing can be established: to each their own. some do it very well with the clutch, some do it very well without.

it seems as though WHY people use it has to do with the assumption that it may be damaging or hard on the internal components other than the clutch plates.

[El Camexican]

By using the lever, youre wearing your fibers faster...

I would argue that plate wear from using the clutch once you are moving is negligible as everything is turning in the same direction. I'm pretty sure most wear occurs on launch and when you are stopped with the engine running and in gear with the clutch lever pulled in. Once the assembly gets worn to the point that it can slip at high speed (that is actually where it works the hardest to stay together) death is imminent. Top end is where you will first notice a worn clutch, unless you're into stump pulling.

[Mosh]

So the rest of us dont ride well and often?
I cant speak for the others but me personally up until last year raced with the Ohio guys and trail ride.
Any one of them will tell you I dont ride a trail bike and a race bike. Everywhere I go I am on my 250r.
I too used to shift whithout the clutch in racing applications..I thought I was doing it right...But when I split my engine over a loose crank bearing I found evidence to be different.

[manbearpig]

So the rest of us dont ride well and often?
I cant speak for the others but me personally up until last year raced with the Ohio guys and trail ride.
Any one of them will tell you I dont ride a trail bike and a race bike. Everywhere I go I am on my 250r.
I too used to shift whithout the clutch in racing applications..I thought I was doing it right...But when I split my engine over a loose crank bearing I found evidence to be different.

O jeez, i knew SOMEONE was gonna go there...
NO. thats not saying everyone else doesnt ride or ride hard, those were just a few contributors to the thread that i could think of off the top of my head. some guys wrench, some ride. the above mentioned do both, very well. yourself included mosh. Those opinions are valued above others. your contributions are valid, though they differ from my own personal experience... probably because... well.. i ride a Honda

[czac]

Racing may be the only truly good reason to not use a clutch. that extra fraction of a split second you'd get may put you in the lead.
Other than that though, either use it or don't its your bike, if it breaks its you who has to fix it, no one else so have fun,ride and, enjoy.
Enjoying yourself while riding is all that really matters!

[Frankencelery]

I certainly can't speak from the voice of experience, since I've probably put less than 3 hours ride time on my Tecate, but while I can and have shifted it without the clutch (usually by accident), it doesn't quite feel right that way, and since Kawasaki was nice enough to include a clutch for me to use, I'll probably continue to use it.

[Mosh]

O jeez, i knew SOMEONE was gonna go there...
NO. thats not saying everyone else doesnt ride or ride hard, those were just a few contributors to the thread that i could think of off the top of my head. some guys wrench, some ride. the above mentioned do both, very well. yourself included mosh. Those opinions are valued above others. your contributions are valid, though they differ from my own personal experience... probably because... well.. i ride a Honda

Yeah I meant no mal intent by that. Was just bringing it up.
Like I said earlier, some have no problems with it. I know Flyin Brian Chillenski has probably logged some of the most laps in race applications that I am aware of in the modern era of trike riding. Finally after 20 years of him racing his R, 3 read gear knocked 2 cogs off and caused him problems. That was a bone stock 86 R engine that only saw racing. The only benefit to not using the clutch I can even slightly say is due to arm pump. It is ironic you mentioned Hondas being superior. In my days of engine stuff, I actually see Yamaha's have less issues with their transmissions than Honda.

Glamy..Thanks again for another valuable post. I think we are all a lil smarter for it.

[atctim]

I was taught to use my clutch when shifting. Always did, until I started racing. Since then (2006) I only use it when putting around. For racing and trail applications and on the street on my dual sport I just shift. I only use my clutch to stop and start now.

[250rAL]

Racing may be the only truly good reason to not use a clutch. that extra fraction of a split second you'd get may put you in the lead.
Other than that though, either use it or don't its your bike, if it breaks its you who has to fix it, no one else so have fun,ride and, enjoy.
Enjoying yourself while riding is all that really matters!

Until the next guy buys that abused transmission.

[keister]

I just unload the trans with a momentary break in acceleration/deceleration leverage and just shift....

Power shifting causes less wear on the clutch because it stays continuously engaged because you are not disengaging it then re-engaging it.

This is an interesting debate. My first reaction is that we have very different definitions of "power shifting."

Here's what we have always called powershifting. This was copied from Urban Dictionary.com.
To power shift a manual transmission vehicle, after inital launch and upon reaching the engine's power curve peak, you must keep the accelerator fully depressed, apply the clutch, upshift, and release the clutch.

You guys are describing letting off the throttle and shifting without the clutch. What we call a powershift is holding the trike wide open and blipping the clutch when you click a gear.

When I am drag racing or coming off the line in a race, I always powershift in this manner. Once launched, I never lift from full throttle on my R in a drag race.

BUT, in the normal course of a race: turns, whoops, jumps (TT, MX), I just bang gears. Nobody has time to be grabbing clutch levers..... but when the wide open straightaway appears (ie. Pine Lake home stretch), I go back to the WOT powershift technique.

The trails are a very different story. I constantly use my clutch in the woods (I'm talking 350X now). Tight turns, cresting blind hills, creek crossings, log hopping all require a lot of clutch modulation. That is one big difference, Paul. Then again, you don't have that kind of terrain to negotiate.