Six million dollar 350x No power!! Help!!

[Big Daddys 350x]

And you expect it to run great?!!! So much wrong here.

You have "an incredible amount of money" into the engine you just described. Tough nuts man.

That's why I'm here to find out why I doesn't seem to make more power than my stock engine did. If you see something I did wrong by all means if your willing to share I'm willing to listen. I'm not interested in being right nor do I care if I look like a fool. My interest is in getting the motor to perform as it should. On the other hand maybe my difference in power from one to the other is unrealistic. I hear of guys running 70+ with a similar set up, I can assure you mine is nowhere near that. Thanks again.

[jays375]

Well now we known little more.When you say smooth on the finish in the head.Is it super smooth on the intake side?Another I just found out with a Megacycle cam.The head didn't flow above 3/4 throttle with it.Fuel was not atomizing.Which washed oil from cylinder.Luckily just ruined rings.I chased that problem for a long time.Tons of jets and different carbs.Had the head professionally ported and polished on a flow bench.Check the above mentioned items.Did you check to see if the valves were completely seating,no leaking?

[yaegerb]

I swear I'm not picking on you yaeger, but I do disagree with everything you posted.

B.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!! People get paid lots of money to deliver an engine that runs right. Tuning should be included when you bet the farm on a one cylinder engine. This is not rocket science kids.

Holy hell back up here. Pay another shop to tune the one cylinder motor another shop built? Please don't do this.
No you can't!!

First of all, take it to the person you paid to build it. Tell them you are disappointed. If all else fails, pm me. I'll build you an engine that runs perfect the first time you ride, GUARANTEED.

Disagree all you want. If I had a dollar for every thread I have read about people pissed off and butt hurt because they just blew the farm on the most BA motor they could build and it barely runs I would be retired right now having Loren Duncan and Curtis Sparks build my engines. Second I don't have a helluva lot of information to go on here....it's crappy on idle, won't pull wheelies, black smoke on WOT...All over the board. I am all for giving help if I have something to go on. Like maybe what jets are you running? What jets were in the 400ex carb? What's your electrical like? Clapped out or OEM? Have you checked timing? Etc, etc. the guy got apparently screwed by the original builder and he's in a two week window. We could sit here for the next two weeks and maybe get lucky or the poor guy could take it to a reputable ATV shop, have them check it over and dyno the bike for optimal power. I digress, good luck with the findings bro.

[HairyJR]

By the way I have a goki starter on it too, and with the decompression cable working that starter will bust a 12:1 motor right off (with a little battery don't have my new one yet) I also put a 400ex starter switch on it. This has been a long project. When I bought it, what there was of it it was all in boxes. It was a motor and a frame with broken front forks and a box of bolts. Boy was I a moron... That's why it's the six million dollar 3 wheeler.

I will try all of your suggestions and let you know what I come up with! Again thank you.

Read through all the threads, and along with many of the good suggestions, this one post about having a Goki starter raised the hair on the back of my neck. Having been a lurker on the site and reading many other peoples posts, "Bob Marlin" mentions there's differences between '85 and '86 starter parts. Could the fact you have 2 different motors parts put together maybe there's something rubbing internally or even spinning the starter motor, only a thought. LOL double check all the basic's.


"HJ"

[Big Daddys 350x]

I certainly did not intend to offend anyone or start any trouble. Sounds like by my lack of knowledge I may have made someone else other than myself apear foolish that was trying to offer helpful advise. I've never built an atv motor before and am sorry to those about my lack of description. Thanks for the help guys but why do I get the feeling that the air around here is getting less than friendly. To any and all I may have mislead by my description, my most sincere apologies.

I don't know much about 3 wheelers but I do know a little about life. People come to these forums looking for help, usually like myself lack of knowledge hoping that someone else may have a tip or an idea for solving their problem. In today's world no one helps no one anymore. I grew up in a time where friends were anxious to lend a hand when needed just because they had a sincere desire to help their neighbor. These forums still hold a little bit of what humanity used to be. Persons like me are greatful to others that listen to them whine a little bit and vent about their problem. Then offer some kind advice like the one member who told me "I've been there hang in there you'll figure it out." That fellow 3 wheeled friend was like a pat on the back and the offer of a drink of cold water on a hot summers day from a kind neighbor. I hate to see others getting upset or lashing out at one another over my account. It's great to be passionate about something but don't let that crowd out common respect for your fellow man. This is a way of neighbor with similar interests to socialize with one another. And though there will be times when we don't agree, we should still keep up a respect for our neighbor being kind and courteous in our manner of speaking with them. For my part I played in this I'm truly sorry to any I may have mislead by my veague description. There is enough non sugar coated conversations in a days time, we should be ready for some sweet conversation in our free time. Now there is a book for you, I did it again. Thanks to all of you for your comments I feel as if you are there beside me looking on making suggestions and boy do I appreciate them.

[atc007]

It's all good. Everyones intentions are good,just very different deliveries I stand behind what I said last night. Internal binding/jetting. It COULD be a rubbed wire,cracked porcelain,,,too smooth on the intake ports,,and on and on and on to infinity!! One thing REALLY bothering me ,you say your Goki snaps her right off. I have some Gokis,,but they're all in boxes. Have never used one. But I believe it seems to be common knowledge,,they do NOT like to start a healthy 350X. Again,this is what I've read only...So,,if yours is firing right off,,with a weak small battery. That's low compression. As said above. Check your compression Now. Double check your timing is spot on. It's not hard and don't overthink it. Call your cam grinder and double check your valve clearances. Listen to your engine turning over. Any grinding/rubbing sounds? And metal in your oil filter.oil? Once you've done all these things,we can be a LITTLE more sure things inside are ok. Then you will be turning to jetting. Just curious. Will the kickstarter pretty much hold you up in the air? A fresh 350X should. I completely understand your buddy was helping you out but has a ton more important things on his plate than a piece of aluminum. We'll get ya figured out. Do you know the timing,or do you need a manual?

[DohcBikes]

yeager does not look foolish, if that's what you're saying. He's very knowledgeable and I respect his opinion greatly, just happen to disagree at the moment. No issues here.... like Bill said it's just my way. You said you have a couple weeks to look at it. Take a step back and relax for a second, we know how you feel.

There has been a lot of great advice so far. My advice for now is to do a compression and leak down test, or have a shop do the tests. This will give us a better picture of how the mechanical parts are working to make power.

Two weeks is PLENTY of time to figure this out. But, you should know that the answer might be that the engine needs built, again.

Just woke up, gimme some time to read your symptoms again and I'll try to form some ideas that don't come across as arrogant.

Bill's binding idea will be rattling around for sure....

Did y'all open the bottom end as well? Sorry if that's been answered already!

[jb2wheels]

... "Bob Marlin" mentions there's differences between '85 and '86 starter parts. Could the fact you have 2 different motors parts put together maybe ...

Good point - make sure you have a matched flywheel/stator set - 85 and 86 were different and it matters.
I think it also means the CDI needs to match as well. Needs more researching since I have CRS.

[El Camexican]

Everyones intentions are good,just very different deliveries

Well said. That should be the banner statement for this site.

So sorry to hear about all the dicking around you've been getting starting from childhood and up to this engine. I hope it ends up being worth all your efforts.

[6speedthumper]

A few other things to look at, and a few things for us to get some info on. New spark plug? Is it a quality plug like NGK? Is it gapped to spec? Were the valves at least lapped? Was a valve job done? Was it done by someone with a good reputation? Did your bud gap the piston rings according to the piston manufacturer? Did you guys try reusing the head gasket or is it new? What are the jet sizes and what position is the jet needle clip in? Is the decomp cable properly adjusted? Was the cylinder bored and honed to match the piston? Or, was the cylinder just honed and new piston thrown in?

[Big Daddys 350x]

I will try to list as many details as possible about the build.

Parts List first
12:1 cr Wiesco Piston
162-30 b Megacycle Hard faced billet Camshaft
Specs as follows

Valve lift at .040 zero clearance on intake side
.365"
Exhaust
.370" at .040 zero clearance

Intake duration
244*
Exhaust is
250*

The intake lobe center is 105* and the exhaust is 109*

Cold valve lash is .004 on the intake side and .006 on the exhaust side

Notes on card: Must use heavy duty valve springs. Ok with stock guides should clear stock piston, but check clearance.
Additional notes: If using valve springs other that the rd springs recommended make sure they have at least .425 travel to coil bind.

Back to parts list
162/RA hard weld/grind rocker arms

[Big Daddys 350x]

I will try to list as many details as possible about the build.

Parts List first
12:1 cr Wiesco Piston
162-30 b Megacycle Hard faced billet Camshaft
Specs as follows

Valve lift at .040 zero clearance on intake side
.365"
Exhaust
.370" at .040 zero clearance

Intake duration
244*
Exhaust is
250*

The intake lobe center is 105* and the exhaust is 109*

Cold valve lash is .004 on the intake side and .006 on the exhaust side

Notes on card: Must use heavy duty valve springs. Ok with stock guides should clear stock piston, but check clearance.
Additional notes: If using valve springs other that the rd springs recommended make sure they have at least .425 travel to coil bind.

Back to parts list
162/RA hard weld/grind rocker arms

Guys I am sorry this is only the first portion of my post. I went into great detail listing the assebly of the engine and every detail along the way and when i went to post it kicked my out of the session and when I got back on this is all thats left of what i wrote. This has happened three times and I am exhausted. I will list in great detail the build process tomorrow.

Basically what I put was. The machinist my friend and I checked everything along the way as the engine was built. I dont have the energy toinght to list it all again. Sorry and thanks so much for the kind words and all the responses.

[DohcBikes]

Hey guys got my 350x running again. It has a brand new top end, 12:1 weisco piston megacycle cam ported and polished head stainless valves 400ex carb with sigma 6 jet kit.

Ring gaps before assembly? Staggered? How much porting? How many engines has the builder ported? What are the jet sizes? We need a base to start from if jetting is to be messed with. What's the float height?

It starts and runs but misses a little above idle turn the throttle a little more and it cleans up.

Only black smoke when it's at wot and then just a little then clears out.

Are you positive that the ignition timing is on? A service manual will clearly illustrate how to properly set the timing to stock specs. You do have a honda service manual, right?... Then, you can fudge it two or three degrees either way to see what works best with your setup.

It seems like the engine is dragging down when you take off up to 1/4 throttle then it stops sputtering and power starts to come on. My wife asked me why are you taking off in second gear. Feels like driving a car with the timing way retarded.

Um, are you positive that the ignition timing is on... Also, as 007 suggests, there could be something dragging it down, mechanically.

It is possible for builders to catch the lower oil control ring on the cylinder on assembly.

You have a lot of money into this build. Get a compression reading. Do a leakdown test. There are instructions plastered all over the internet.

I have more to say but I also have a tee time. You can't just sit there and stare at the motor. Gotta check and change stuff and see how it reacts.

Fixing engines over the internet is exponentially tougher than in person....

[6speedthumper]

Fixing engines over the internet is exponentially tougher than in person....

Damn did you ever hit the nail on the head!!


Dohc brought up a good point about the staggering of the piston rings. Did you or did you not stagger them properly? Did you make sure that the rings were installed with the correct side facing up? Some rings have an angle cut into the face of them, and sometimes they can be beveled. Not many rings come without numbers or letters stamped into them, near the end gap, and those numbers/letters need to be installed facing up (99.99% of the time, again consult piston mfg's instructions).

How about your clutch? You did say that it feels like it's "dragging down". Is what you are feeling clutch related, like it's slipping or the cable is adjusted too tight?

[Zach]

Before you get too worked up make sure the basics are ok. A couple have posted this, make sure you have good compression. That right there could tell you if there is a valve timing problem or an issue with the rings. You are blowing black smoke so I am assuming your spark plug is also black? The condition of the spark plug can tell you a whole story of what the bike is doing internally. If it is lacking that much in power have you checked to see if you have weak spark? Also try a different brand spark plug. The resistance level in your spark plug or the material it is made out of could be causing you a whole world of problems. Some more basic information of what you have done to diagnose your problem could also be helpful to try to pinpoint where your issue is.