Six million dollar 350x No power!! Help!!

[Dirtcrasher]

^ Mighty Perty buddy!!

Glad mine worked (used) out of the box, I used non-chlorinated carburetor cleaner on it.

[Big Daddys 350x]

I'll do the jetting first just running out of time to order a cdi if that's what's wrong. I would like to replace my old one anyway instead of waiting for it to give me problems at an inconvenient time. Like the sand dunes. Wonder if I should just buy the remanufactured on from ricks motorsports or buy a different set up for mine. Any suggestions on that would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[HairyJR]

So here is something 'm willing to bet very few of you know. Part 1 - there are NO definite 85 flywheels/stators in an 85 or 86. Owning half a dozen take out motors told me this.

But, what DOES FIT is the "so called 86 flywheel" OVER an 85 stator but not the other way around. So, I had changed the cover because I scratched the sh!t out of the 86 cover and inadvertently placed a LARGER ID flywheel over the 85 "type" stator that was in a take out motor untouched. And it gave a small spark that was weak. Put the correct flywheel on, 1 kick - vrooooom.

“Big Daddys 350x” I’m not trying to highjack your tread as I posted earlier comment about the Goki starter but have a new to me project using an ‘85 350x motor and the outer crankcase cover is damaged, chain thru cover that needs replaced and "Dirtcrasher" says there appears to be differences. I’ll be purchasing a used complete cover/stator assembly as I also need electrical plug connectors.

“Dirtcrasher” I may be old and senile but can’t make heads or tails as what you said about the differences in your post. First are the outer crankcase covers the same? Are the flywheels the same? Are the stator assemblies different? So I think your saying what’s needed is same year components to operate correctly.

One last question, can the ’86 CDI be used on a ’85 set up or vise versa?

"HJ"

[Big Daddys 350x]

Not at all there good buddy! What I know is goki has two different kits for the 85 350x and the 86 350x they are different part numbers. Not sure what the difference. Best money I ever spent on the trike. It looks better in person to me to than in pictures. The starter is big and well built . Mine does not have any funny sounds or anything. With the decompression engaged, and a fresh batt. It will spin the motor over very fast. I love it.

I have tons of good parts and think I have a pretty good cover if you don't already have one.

[RubberSalt]

In the case of running like crap with no power. From what I can tell from the reading..

Assuming wirring is correct and you have a problem tat is repeatable shows me that what ever the cause is, is static and is not changing. This can be ruled down to 4 different areas typically.

1. Cam/valve timing. You've verified this is correct visually.

2. Compression - Actual numbers are needed. Without the decomp lever, the engine will not crank over. It's probably good.

3. Ignition timing - Stock is great for pump gas. Does 110 octane require advanced timing? Is it a slower burning fuel that needs to be ignited sooner? later?

4. Carburetor/jetting - This depends on the fuel heavily. Is it some random 110 octane fuel or is this vp 110 race fuel? A/F ratio for vp 110 is about 14:1(Does not factor in efficiency of engine). Heavily oxygenated fuels rated at 110 octane have a ration that is closer to 8:1. You could be very very far of with jetting. And it sounds like it if your puffing black smoke. It also sounds like a leaded fuel. Alcohol is a very very clean fuel. I'd recommend mixing a little 2 stroke oil with 100% alcohol. Adding an air filter doesn't just add a restriction to incoming air, it causes more vacuum within a carburetor. Fuel isn't sucked out of the carb, it's boiled under a vacuum. More vacuum, more fuel. You'll need to be within the A/F ratio for the specific fuel to reap it's benefits. You stated that it runs best with the screw all the way in on the bottom of the carb. This is your fuel screw. It blocks the pilot jet from the carb. The further in this is, the less gas you will get. My suggestion is to drop 3 sizes on your main jet, place the needle in the middle, and lower your pilot jet 1 size... OR put the 400ex carb in with stock jetting and start from there. The suggestion is a big change and should note a good change on power. If it helps, drop the main jet 3 more sizes. As you get closer to the correct ratio, you'll make more power.

I've personally built up quite a jet kit. Every modification may require rejetting. I usually swap 3 sizes at a time until i get close. From there ill start moving 1 jet at a time. I like to start with the pilot jet in most cases. This will get the bottom end running right. The pilot jet will have the most dramatic affect between idle and 25% throttle. It will effect WOT by some 2-3%. For throttle at 25% to 75% is going to be your needle position/main jet combination. Main jet is going to be 75%- WOT.

Typically tune idle, then WOT then Needle. Occasionally the needle will need adjusted to reach WOT.

[jb2wheels]

...

“Dirtcrasher” I may be old and senile but can’t make heads or tails as what you said about the differences in your post. First are the outer crankcase covers the same? Are the flywheels the same? Are the stator assemblies different? So I think your saying what’s needed is same year components to operate correctly.

One last question, can the ’86 CDI be used on a ’85 set up or vise versa?...

Stator covers are the same. Stators are different and flywheels are different to match the stator.

I have an 86 engine/stator/flywheel in my 85 including the 85 wiring harness and CDI and it runs great with no issues.

Quote from this thread on another forum:

'85's used an Nippon Denso Stator and rotor. Early '85's had a problen with the epoxy that covered the stator windings melting under engine heat... Late 85's and all '86's came with a Mitsuba setup.
The Mitsuba set-up is the way to go, it allows you to use the 1999-2004 400EX CDI.
Caution: Although the ND stator will fit inside the Mitsuba rotor, the Mitsuba stator will not fit in the ND rotor. Also, since the E-gap is larger using the ND stator with the Mitsuba rotor, you can expect either very low or no output from the stator.

Paraphrasing:
early 85 = ND stator & flywheel
late 85 & 86 = Mitsuba stator & flywheel
early flywheel won't fit over late stator
late flywheel fits over early stator and runs like ass if at all

What I don't know is the flywheel ID for each version but I saw it posted somewhere...

Picture 86 Mitsuba on left, 85 ND on right:



Basically all repeated here

[Big Daddys 350x]

Anyone on the Ricks Motorsport CDI? By the way we bought a jet kit for my sons 350 warrior and fired it today. Same company sigma 6 same price. Same problems. Both jet kit were supposed to be build to the specs of our bikes. I have about $100.00 in both kits. Both kits were installed to the letter of the instruction provided in the kit and guess what exact same problem. Jetted the warrior down and it cleaned up a bunch but still has a flat spot off idle. Maybe I just don't know what I am doing but I can tell you both kits were way off. For me I'll never buy a jet kit or anything else from them again. I paied the extra money because they were supposed to be Taylor made for the application. Maybe I just don't know what I'm doing.

[jays375]

When it comes to jet kits you are better of buying individual jets.Which has been mentioned by others.You can't buy a kit that will work for your combination perfectly.Like many others here I have built up a good sized collection of jets.Not just ones for trikes.Think one cylinder is tough,try four.I am still learning about jetting myself.Sometimes you get lucky pretty quick.Other times there are issues you need to figure out first.When jetting isn't working out you find this out.

[Big Daddys 350x]

Ya both kits were bought before either one was installed. I guess more is more theory doesn't apply here. I figured as expensive as the kits are that they would best the best lol! Another lesson learned the hard way. I really don't think I know of any other way though.

Does anyone know anything about the oem cdi for the 350x that ricks motorsports makes. My trip is next week and I want to buy another cdi incase this one is bad but I don't want to learn another lesson the hard way. It's $127 and new but it's oem specs so no new timing curve or anything like that. Just a good spare of the stock version.

[6speedthumper]

You need to get that bike jetted correctly before you start spending money even more needlessly. Put the stock needle back in the carb, on the middle notch (if it has notches, my new EX carb has a fixed position needle), and put GENUINE Keihin jets in it. The stock 400ex jets are 38 pilot, 150 main, and the mixture screw 1.5 turns out from lightly seated (IIRC). Run it, plug chop it, adjust your jets accordingly. The larger the jet, the richer the mixture (giving the engine more fuel), the smaller the jet the leaner the mixture (giving the engine less fuel). You need to plug chop the idle circuit, the mid range/jet needle circuit, and the main circuit at WOT. Do them one at a time and get the circuit you are working on dialed in, then move on to the next. You need to be riding the bike, with the engine under load, to get an accurate reading on the plug to see if you need to lean out or richen that particular circuit, except the idle circuit (literally let the engine idle, at operating temp, for a good 5 minutes). It's not TOO often you will have to change the jet needle's position (moving the clip to another notch). Most can be left on the middle notch, but, not always. Lowering the needle (moving the clip to a higher notch) will lean out that circuit. Raising the needle will richen it. The needle and the main work together, and you are best to get the main circuit dialed in before messing with the needle, if you even have to. Again, most times the needle will not need adjusting.

You want a brown paper bag look to the plug, or, "golden brown", on the center electrode. If the plug is white, or grey, that circuit is lean, and if it's grey it's not off by too much and may only need the next largest jet. But, every machine is different, this is just a generalization I'm giving. If the plug is black that particular circuit is rich and needs a smaller jet. Don't forget, the idle mixture screw is used to basically fine tune the idle circuit. So, if for example, the plug is grey with a 38 pilot jet, but a bit black with a 40 pilot jet, you can use the mixture screw to get it just right, you pretty much have to choose which jet to leave in the carb, and adjust the screw accordingly and plug chop again. Turn the screw in to lean the idle circuit, turn it out to richen; turn the screw in 1/4 turn increments until the plug shows it's dialed in. Rule of thumb, two complete 360* turns is equal to one jet size.


The thing with jetting is patience, simply because you may have to take that carb off a dozen times to make jetting changes. Also, if you are not confident to tackle jetting, find someone that is both confident, and experienced, to do it. And, remember, it is best to start off with jetting that is a tad rich and have to jet it leaner, then have it lean and need to make it rich. That being said, Mickey's earlier post about recommended jet sizes to start with, are pretty on target to get a baseline. Just as an example, I built my X with a 395cc 11:1 big bore kit, custom ground cam, ported and polished, full Supertrapp exhaust, 400ex carb, Dynatech 400ex cdi, K&N w/Outerwears and am running the air box lid; my jetting came in at 38 pilot, 180 main, and 2.25 turns out on the mixture screw. Not saying that is what your X will need. It's just an example.

In a nutshell, that's basic jetting practices. Again, if this is not something you are confident doing, find someone who is.

[hawaiirider]

hey i had similar problems with my built 200x after it was built as it didnt have any power either, i loosened the valve lash and leaned it out considerably which was opposite of what i thought, it runs great now plug is light brown. still compared to a 250r these 4 strokes seem slow even fully built.

[HairyJR]

I have tons of good parts and think I have a pretty good cover if you don't already have one.

thanks for the offer, when you return from vacation PM me and we'll work something out.

No answers to your Ricks' Motorsports cdi question and with the idea of helping you too, no one has answered my question "can a '86 cdi be used on a '85 or vise versa" ? Could buy a used one to try or have as spare. You might be able to talk someone at the dune vacation spot to try theirs on your ailing 350x just another easy way to trouble shoot and eliminate one variable. LOL , dune riding season is here......keep us posted....

"HJ"

[Big Daddys 350x]

Ya just got my skat sand paddles and dune runner mo-hawk front tire. Had them ground from bead to bead on mint 250r gold rims! They look so sick on the wheels. I gotta figure out how to post pics and show you guys what it looks like.