Quantum physics

[clmeue37]

it`s so perfect and we`re here for such short time enjoy it while you can !

You hit the nail on the head with that one glamy! I just turned 28 a few weeks ago and I got to realizing that time isn't going to stand still. I'm going to make my life here on earth as amazing as I can and enjoy every single minute.

[fabiodriven]

The first step to salvation is to realize that we are all sinners:

Romans 3:10 (KJV)

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Romans 3:23 (KJV)

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Speak for yourself. I'm not speaking for you so don't try to speak for me. I'm a genuinely good person that always has good intentions. You're not going to tell me I'm a sinner so keep that to yourself. Name calling is actually against the rules of the forum.

**Next, you must know that because of sin there must be a price paid:

Romans 6:23 (KJV)

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Bullshit. I haven't done anything wrong and I'm not repenting for having done nothing other than good. You sound like a woman now. You can go grovel and cry about all the messed up stuff you're doing, but I'll just keep doing good things and improve upon this world and smile while I do it. I don't owe anybody any apologies right now and I won't be made to feel as though I do for no reason. Such an archaic way of thinking, so simple and silly.

**This price can be paid by you with an eternity in Hell, or you can accept the price that Jesus paid for your sin:

Romans 5:8 (KJV)

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

This part I understand. It's called threats and extortion. "Play by my rules or else" is essentially what that says. Conform to my rules and bow down. I have a response for that. How's you sound?

[Mickey Dunlap]

Happy Thanks giving! http://www.intouch.org/broadcast/today-on-radio

[briano]

Good read Fabio, I have to sit and read through a bit better when I have time but I usually enjoy your exceptionally long posts. I could never type that much without forgetting what I was trying to say. Lol

Mickey, take your God and start a religious forum. I'm quite sure that many people are tired of God showing up in all of your posts lately. I appreciate your opinion but it is getting to be like a church sermon here. Also sorry about your dad but you should know that's what god wanted, and your brother suffering, god wants that too. So there's something to think about. Also, why does god make a grown man rape and kill young Children, what kind of person would want that.

[Billy Golightly]

I believe in God for the simple reason that I know I'm too dumb to be able to learn and understand anything and everything that goes on, and for the reasons which it does.

Doesn't stop me from trying to, but the shear complexity of many different things in life, and the relative insignificance we are in the grand scheme of things is so mind boggling, I just dont personally see chance or randomness creating that, no matter how much time was involved. There will always be more knowledge than we can understand and questions that we cannot answer. For everything that we "solve", we produce more unknowns. We solved gravity and learned about atomics. We "solved" atomic physics, but we learned about quantum physics in the process. When we solve quantum physics, something else will be unknown from that. Knowledge is not a finite resource, and infinity is a sign of God (to me, anyways).


I've been a close follower of Ayn Rand's objectivist philosophy for about 5 years now - and while she was an adamant athiest I think she got that part wrong. One thing that I do agree with on that line is that collectivism in organized religion (and anywhere else!!) is a terrible terrible thing. The individual and our ability to accomplish, our creativity, autonomy, our freedom to make either poor or good decision, when it was written in the Bible that man was created in God's image - these are things that i recognize as being necessary to create us and our environment but that we also posses to a lesser degree in ourselves. So I guess you could call me a Christian-Objectivist, which the masses on either side of those names would scream bloody murder blasphemy at them being hyphenated in the same sentence, but it works for me.


2
: emphasis on collective rather than individual action or identity

The most evil that there is, right there ^^^^


Thanks for sharing John.



tldr; Knowledge is infinite, infinity is by definition unmeasurable. God = unmeasurable.

[Mickey Dunlap]

That's great Bill, you are go in the right direction. Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you, seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be open unto you:

7:8 For everyone that asketh receiveth; and he the seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Prverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

[sledcrazyinCT]

Thanks for the link to Krause....I appreciate you sharing that Fabio...only thing I would find reason to respond for debate is I believe the main reason any species is on earth is to procreate.
Not sure why marriage is an unnatural act? Many species adopt a family structure.....humans call it marriage or civil union or whatever but people are meant to interact and not isolate themselves from one other.

I edited my comments as they had nothing to do with quantum physics and religion is a POV that has some relevance in this discussion

[ironchop]

I`m not wise enough to claim I know anything as fact so I must let my observations serve me. I don`t claim to be an atheist or a believer. I am just Man looking to find Peace and his way through this plane of existence

I`ve seen The Secret twice thanks to my wife. We don`t have a dream board but we try to employ some of the ideas. A lot of good points in there. I also loosely follow Wayne Dyer on PBS talks. I`ve also read the Bible. Many excellent lessons and teachings there as well.

my OBSERVATIONS:

1) Religion has a place in modern society because a whole lot of people cannot seem to be empathetic, courteous, honorable, peaceful, loving, or respectful without being threatened with burning in Hell for Eternity. On the other hand, its (religion) useful deployment is frequently derailed and used as an excuse to maim, kill, enslave, disrespect, and rape other people. Any passage of any book can be interpreted any number of ways to suit the ideology of the reader. The Bible has been no exception

2) I don`t understand why many Christians don`t believe in Evolution, Alien life forms, or dinosaurs in some cases. Seems Blasphemous to me or at least arrogant in the least to think that, You mortal Man, knows a damn thing about the capabilities or intentions of The Creator and that he/she didn`t intend for species to evolve in order to adapt to changing circumstances. The best explanation I have heard from "believers" is that "god would have told us about all that in The Book"........I beg to differ. The Bible lays out many lessons and instructions for Mankind. Mankind can`t seem to master the art of being a good Christian as described in the confines of the good book and therefore isn`t ready for True Knowledge. The New Testament basically describes the act of Unconditional Love as being the Salvation of our species and yet, our sinful, envious, and jealous selves cannot comprehend true unconditional love for mankind. Why in the hell would they be trusted with higher knowledge of things when they can`t process or outright fail to implement the instructions they were provided initially? To say God didn`t create Evolution and other such inconceivable things is very dangerous for people who think they know Him enough to dare to assume they know the scope or the motives of such a magnificent creator. And yet, I hear this arrogance and self-righteousness quite regularly lately. Just because you read God`s Cliff notes as recorded by second and third hand authors does not an expert on God make you. You need to check yourself if you honestly think you know much of anything about an Entity whom is so much more advanced, skilled, and omnipotent than anything a mere mortal can comprehend. Anyone who claims otherwise is bound for Hell by the rules of their own religion. IMO God, as described in the OT, is just as capable of making perfect beings as he is of making things that he decides to "tweak" later in Man`s Timeline

3) I have observed the Laws of Attraction in action and almost failsafe for many decades. In other words, Like attracts like. Negativity begats negativity and Positivity attracts the same. Miserable people tend to always have miserable and tragic things happen to them. Charlie Brown and his shadow raincloud being a fine allegorical example of this. How many assholes do you know whom practice the Art of Assholery and are ultimately successful and happy? I believe there are cosmic forces in action that are interconnected with our actions and even our feelings. I seem to be very adept at manipulating my own world into whatever mood I happen to be in on any given day and I do it subconsciously.

4) where the Bible and I part ways is where punishing Sin is something left for the Afterlife as opposed to the notion of Kharma which is that you receive punishment and therefore, life lessons, much earlier than after your physical demise. I see a lot of people get their "comeuppance" for past transgressions much more so that I witness people whom never have to pay for their actions. I also disagree with much dogma. What can you expect though from books that have been "translated" and "interpreted" by millions of "expert Christians" for thousands of years coupled with the fact that alliteration, metaphor, and literalism are all three often misunderstood or completely ignored altogether?

5) I know what I know and I don`t pretend to know what I can`t understand. I don`t need the promise that Christ will return for me or threats of Hellfire and Damnation to keep me on the right path for humanity. I love, I forgive, I try not to judge, I don`t kill, I don`t steal, I try to do no harm to anyone lest they try and harm myself or my family. I was born knowing right from wrong and I try and live righteous without religion. It works for me regardless of the opinions of the "experts". Most of all, I don`t attack as wrong the beliefs of others because , again, it insinuates that I`m a self-righteous and arrogant prick who dares think that I am the epitomy of righteous behavior. I can`t go wrong as long as I pursue HUMILITY as well as the other virtues of being a good citizen.

6) Nobody has proven nor disproven anything. Merely telling me to believe for any reason....Science, Religion, Metaphysics, Philosophy,etc.....doesn`t fly with me as I can name examples of MANY wrongs and misinterpretations by ALL the aforementioned. I go with what I know and with what my gut (conscience) tells me. I don`t believe in "authority". Of all the missteps Mankind has taken, I can`t fathom why humans still pretend to know something they can`t possibly know.

7) Human Enlightenment is currently impossible until our species stops de-evolving, hones our critical thinking skills, learns to embrace ideas we have been told to shun, and stops being entertained or distracted by the most petty and worthless stimuli. We aren`t ready for Real Knowledge and I hazard a guess that we are still 1000 years away. Our collective IQ isn`t enough to comprehend The Big Bang, String Theory, and other complex explanations of Quantum theories. We would rather have a couple MIT nerds hash that out, take their word for it, and continue watching people give each other concussions, backstab for Survival, plot to get laid, have a dance-off for a disco ball, and engage in the most primal of human behaviors....no need for higher thinking and enlightenment when you have a bigger penis and a fantasy football team to entertain you.

I like my path. Mine isn`t for everyone and I`m not going to pretend to think it`s even the right path. All I do know is that I try and live like a loving and compassionate being and teach my children to do the same. I guess I`m saying that my beliefs are kind of an amalgam of many different systems and the doctrines that overlap from each of these systems are the doctrines I try to focus on. Most religions share the same beliefs and it`s the dogma that has confused and confounded.

Otherwise, I fully respect the beliefs of others as their own personal life journey and don`t pretend to know who`s righteous and who is bound for Hell

[fabiodriven]

The "Big-Bang" has not been proven,

I did some research on this which brought me back to some things I had learned about previously and reminded me about research I had seen. I was reminded of "quarks", "the god particle", "the Higgs particle", and the research being conducted to attempt to prove the big bang theory. After this discussion began, I watched this first-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_MFhAoUUmQ

This video might lead one to believe scientists are well on their way to proving the big bang theory correct or may have in fact already done it, however after being left with some questions I decided to look into things a bit more. This is what I found-

http://creation.com/has-the-big-bang-been-proved

This discusses the exact subject addressed in the video posted above, however it has a very different conclusion. It is basically saying nothing has been proven as of yet and the experiments taking place in order to prove the big bang theory are being advertised as being more successful than they actually are/were. The long and short is you would appear to be correct, the big bang theory has not yet been proven.

In regards to "reverse evolution", I read your link having to do with that. From what I can gather, reverse evolution only seems to shore up the walls of the evolution argument. Put very simply, reverse evolution has to do with the phenomenon of species that "devolve" by influence of their environment. In other words, a species of fish who have moved deeper and deeper into a cave over generations and in turn no longer needs eyes or pigment on its skin. What happens is the species "devolves", or loses those features it no longer needs but at the same time can have other features that would be more useful strengthen or increase in size. I'm not sure what your position was one way or the other on this subject Jonny, but to me that just proves that evolution is indeed able to shape creatures the way we are shaped without the assistance of some divine institution. If someone or something were to have interjected in the making of "us", my answer to that would be aliens far before a god. They would be the gods, so to speak.

Good read Fabio, I have to sit and read through a bit better when I have time but I usually enjoy your exceptionally long posts. I could never type that much without forgetting what I was trying to say. Lol

Mickey, take your God and start a religious forum. I'm quite sure that many people are tired of God showing up in all of your posts lately. I appreciate your opinion but it is getting to be like a church sermon here. Also sorry about your dad but you should know that's what god wanted, and your brother suffering, god wants that too. So there's something to think about. Also, why does god make a grown man rape and kill young Children, what kind of person would want that.

Thank you for posting and thanks for the compliments. Mickey is OK to post what he chooses. I brought up the subject of religion and someone who is into religion surely would have a lot to say after reading my posts and they are free to do so. However I would agree the religious stuff he posts outside of this thread can be very annoying.

Thanks for the link to Krause....I appreciate you sharing that Fabio...only thing I would find reason to respond for debate is I believe the main reason any species is on earth is to procreate.
Not sure why marriage is an unnatural act? Many species adopt a family structure.....humans call it marriage or civil union or whatever but people are meant to interact and not isolate themselves from one other.

I edited my comments as they had nothing to do with quantum physics and religion is a POV that has some relevance in this discussion

Thanks for the reply. I might agree with you on the marriage and procreation thing. I was thinking about that not long after I had posted initially and I feel as though I wouldn't mind being married which made me think about what I wrote. What I meant is, man is programmed to procreate with as many mates as possible, that's just how we're geared. However, there are plenty of species other than man that mate for life and have long term relationships and families. If it occurs in nature, that's enough for me. Another thing that occurs naturally in species outside of human beings, long term homosexual relationships. Think about that one, haha.

I'm glad you changed your comment sledcrazy, I was going to say something about that. :-)

[trike savior]

keep in mind Fabio as you are going through all the information. there are not really any facts or proven things in science. only theories with proof and that is the beautiful thing about science, that anything is always up for debate. there are many theories that are widely accepted by the scientific community, so you could call it facts, but if any evidence came forth to disprove a theory, it is reviewed and changes made accordingly. keep in mind there are some widely accepted theories that some scientists do not accept. Heck, there are still some scientists trying to disprove climate change.

"what the bleep do we know" was one of my favorites when a friend showed it to me a few years ago. an eye opener for sure. anyone that has not watched it should give it a serious look.

as I stated during our last conversation that was closed, I am not religious but know the bible cover to cover. K-8 in a Lutheran school I got into science and mainly history in high school and college. So, I agree with most of everything you have to say. I never got to respond to some of the rants of a fellow member so I will use this chance to respond.

I said there have been more people killed in the name of religion than religion it has ever helped. an estimated 3,000,000 people died during the crusades. not to mention the countless other attempted forced conversions that led to entire civilizations being wiped out. the thirty years war killed an estimated 11,500,000. and that's just 2 wars in the name of Christ. (those are the high side estimates) When you start looking at wars of other religions it makes these numbers miniscule. the amount of people that have died fighting for the holy land, across the tries of all the various religions, are incalculable.

lets also not forget the catholic church killed and threatened death to many scientists who had new and bright ideas.

most religions are a good bunch of morals and rules to live your life by. nothing wrong with that until you try to oppress the thoughts and beliefs of others, which many religions do. this is my main problem with religion. anytime you involve man, who is imperfect and inherently greedy, in something that has the hearts and minds of so many people, they will bend the truth to serve their own agenda. that being my problem with popes, cardinals, pastors and so on. Not to mention the fact that the bible itself was written by man, Jesus was a man during his time on earth.

anyone remember how the catholic church raised funds by inventing purgatory? A place you go before the afterlife and the living could shorten the time the dead spent there with donations to the church.

All this being said I do believe in a "creator". God is the English term for the deity of a culture so if that's what you want to call it, fine. I believe the big bang created our universe and others. Evolution got the human race to where we are today. But no one can answer where matter came from or the universe's that pre-date our own. I basically mean there is no explanation of how it all started, why there is a place for the "Big Bang" to take place.

I do believe in an after life. for one reason that some may find ridiculous. My Father's mother was not the church going type or preachy, though she did beg for "the good lord" to just take her after my grandfather died and things got rough near the end. my father is also not religious but asked his mother near the end for a sign "IF" there was an afterlife. I never knew this until later but even I saw the sign. At the family summer home they purchased, there were 3 trees down by the lake that completely blocked our view of the lake from the house. as long as I can remember, she said she hated those trees and wanted them gone but could not afford to have them removed. Grandma died in the fall after we had closed up the house. when we went up to open in the spring, those 3 trees were laying on the ground without doing any damage to anything. Yes they were taken out by a storm but I like to think it was her taking care of business and giving us a sign.

so I do have some beliefs, but none of them having to do with any certain book. I feel I am free-er than those who are bound by the rules of a deity. I am free to do as I please and believe what I choose without fear of eternal damnation. when I "pray" for something it is not to the father of Jesus Christ, or Allah, or the Buddah, but to the force that is responsible for all that we encounter in this short life.

[6speedthumper]

We all exist in the computer programmed world, known as, The Matrix. There, problem solved.

[Billy Golightly]

This nicely sums up what I was trying to get across in my post with words better than I could at that moment.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

[El Camexican]

Also, why does god make a grown man rape and kill young Children, what kind of person would want that.

I have yet to read all these great posts and toss my own controversial $0.02 in, but for the moment this one sentence is, well I'm just going to say I don't like it. To say that anyone's version of a divine being would permit those acts is no different than saying trikes hurt and kill people. If Mr. Dunlop, or anyone else wants to add their beliefs to a post who are any of us to say it's wrong? Just skip over it and move on or argue them if you want, but not with a comment like this. Beliefs are as individual as we are and both should be tolerated and respected.

Great post Fab, lets hope everyone can behave well enough that it doesn't get closed.

[Mickey Dunlap]

I have yet to read all these great posts and toss my own controversial $0.02 in, but for the moment this one sentence is, well I'm just going to say I don't like it. To say that anyone's version of a divine being would permit those acts is no different than saying trikes hurt and kill people. If Mr. Dunlop, or anyone else wants to add their beliefs to a post who are any of us to say it's wrong? Just skip over it and move on or argue them if you want, but not with a comment like this. Beliefs are as individual as we are and both should be tolerated and respected.

Great post Fab, lets hope everyone can behave well enough that it doesn't get closed.

That's what I always wonder, why people get so mad if they don't believe in Jesus? If it's all just a fairy tail why would you get made about it?

I don't see anyone getting mad about Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny, which are fairy tails masking the real meaning of the holidays.

Why does the name "Jesus" bug people so much that they can't just pass over it?

[fabiodriven]

That's what I always wonder, why people get so mad if they don't believe in Jesus? If it's all just a fairy tail why would you get made about it?

I don't see anyone getting mad about Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny, which are fairy tails masking the real meaning of the holidays.

Why does the name "Jesus" bug people so much that they can't just pass over it?

It wouldn't matter if his name were Jim or Paul. When you hear it enough it gets old.