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Thread: Tri Z Engine Build

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by poolieZerUK View Post
    Well spotted, schoolboy error on my behalf.
    How are you getting an accurate measure?
    Will have a butchers at it later.
    No worries mate, I’m learning here too. I thought it was done the way you did it a few months ago, but just imagine that a solid mass needs to pass through the hole and you will know exactly how to measure it.

    I will go so far as to say that “exact” measurements with conventional tools is almost impossible. The best us do-it-yourselfers can do is be consistent in the way we take measurements for comparative purposes.

    A perfect example of a fudge factor measurement is the chamfers of the ports. If you stuff a piece of paper folder into the cylinder and work around it with your fingers to leave an impression on the paper (works best if the cylinder is a little dirty) you are going to get a transfer of the port image that is a little fuzzy at best on the edges. Realistically the chamfer is going to appear in that fuzzy section, so I then spread the paper out flat and trace the center of the fuzzy edge with an ink pen (I press hard to leave a groove). I’ve read some people then cut the windows out with a razor and form a circle to measure, but I just wrapped the paper around the piston and let the tips of my caliper drop into the groves that the pen made. I guess if you had to have it more exact you could bore the cylinder and map the ports on paper before chamfering them.

    For comparative purposes (before and after) you can do it any way you want as long as it is done the same way each time. The reason you would need to do it “correctly” and remove the chamfer from the numbers is if you are asking someone to build you a pipe, or offer advice on another modification like changing port timing. Lying to your pipe builder about the size of your ports will do you no favors. It’s like buying the Magnum sized condoms to impress the checkout girl and then having them fall off at the worst possible time.

    Same thing with checking the port timing. Each action effects the next. You must find TDC and then decide where to determine a port window opens of closes. I first thought it would be after the rings pass the chamfer, but it isn’t. It’s when the dome passes the open window of the port. How can you tell to within 1 degree? Good question, maybe a feeler gauge? I used my nearsighted vision to pick a spot and repeated the process a dozen times till I kept getting the same reading. (It’s so much easier to move the crank around on a 2 stroke as you can turn it back and forth without fear of bending anything) It is entirely possible that someone else doing the same thing on the same engine could come up with results that differ by a couple of degrees.

  2. #152
    poolieZerUK is offline At The Back Of The Pack Arm chair racerFirst time rider
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    Ok a quick measure says
    exhaust port 52.75mm ish less the chamfered portion
    piston dia. is 69.7mm ish

    need to measure the Sprock dome volume as I can't remember which one I got, and I've ordered a degree wheel to get some meaningful figures.
    going to run the Sprock intake with the with V force 3 reeds and Dyno port pipe and 38-39mm carb
    was planning on getting YZ ignition but may go with the lightened flywheel

    The reed cage that came with the ported motor was well eased and sporting boyesen petals but I already had the v force which appear to be quality items.

    Keep up the good work

  3. #153
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    Two questions: Can you post a photo of that exhaust port that shows its proximity to the transfer ports? Also, can you measure how close the exhaust is to the transfer ports at is closest point? I think the rule of thumb on a non-bridged port is 70% of bore. If you're at 70mm 49mm is about as far as you would want to go. Not saying the rings will catch (I have no idea), but I'd be concerned with your number.
    Last edited by El Camexican; 07-20-2015 at 06:39 PM.

  4. #154
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    70 percent is my full blown maximum, and I would not ported it that far unless I added a bridge.

    Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk
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  5. #155
    barnett468 is offline FACT ! I have no edit button Arm chair racerThe day begins with 3WW
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    Quote Originally Posted by poolieZerUK View Post
    Ok a quick measure says exhaust port 52.75mm ish less the chamfered portion piston dia. is 69.7mm ish

    going to run the Sprock intake with the with V force 3 reeds and Dyno port pipe and 38-39mm carb was planning on getting YZ ignition but may go with the lightened flywheel
    What type of clutch do you plan to use?
    .

  6. #156
    poolieZerUK is offline At The Back Of The Pack Arm chair racerFirst time rider
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    Will get photo tomorrow showing port map and cylinder.

    Transfer ports measure looking from the front 8.3mm LHS 9.1mm RHS from the exhaust port not adjusted for chamfer

    Piston has 175 stamped on dome

    If it's no good it's no drama, but it would be nice to have a score

    Looking at it there has been a lot of work put into it, and as you know to turn out this kind of thing isn't easy.

  7. #157
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    Can you post some pictures there maybe a few "tells" that with help out.

    Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk
    Email- onformula1@hotmail.com Rebuilt, Revalved, custom springs, lowering, forks & shocks, Custom Suspension, all brands, 2-3-4 wheeler's- PM or Email with questions.

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    As always- Everything I post is IMHO.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by poolieZerUK View Post
    Will get photo tomorrow showing port map and cylinder.

    Transfer ports measure looking from the front 8.3mm LHS 9.1mm RHS from the exhaust port not adjusted for chamfer

    Piston has 175 stamped on dome

    If it's no good it's no drama, but it would be nice to have a score

    Looking at it there has been a lot of work put into it, and as you know to turn out this kind of thing isn't easy.
    If the cylinder has work done to it and there is an issue with the port being too wide you could sleeve it.

  9. #159
    poolieZerUK is offline At The Back Of The Pack Arm chair racerFirst time rider
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    re-sleeve is an option as it's only one oversize left in it, was just going to run it to see if it's viable.

  10. #160
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    I know pictures like this can be deciving, but I don't see how your exhaust port can be that wide. It looks narrower than mine. I say this because of its proximity to the transfer ports. They look almost as though they're the same distance apart as stock.

    Please check your # again. dirty the cylinder a little with a shot of WD 40, take a piece of stiff paper (I use office folders) and don't worry about aby thing but the width of that port. In other words you can just use a half circumference long piece. Place it firmly over the port and tight against the cylinder wall and rub your finger firmly around the port until you are sure you've left an impression on the paper. Make sure the paper doesn't move while you do this!

    Then remove the paper, lay it out on a table and trace the port out with a ball point pen. If the imprint on the paper is 1mm wide center the pen on that line. Then wrap the paper around the piston and using a decent quality caliper (make sure you zero it out) measure across the widest point between the two sides of the ink marks. I suspect (and hope) you'll get 47-48mm. Good luck!

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Camexican View Post
    You lost me partner. What video and what Tri-Z?
    sorry the video Fabiodriven posted of him beating the old Tri-Z.
    2- 85 Tri-Z's black and Yellow
    2- 85 250SX's
    1- 85 200X
    3-ATC 70's
    2- 85 tri-zinger's who needs some parts

  12. #162
    barnett468 is offline FACT ! I have no edit button Arm chair racerThe day begins with 3WW
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    Quote Originally Posted by poolieZerUK View Post
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    re-sleeve is an option as it's only one oversize left in it, was just going to run it to see if it's viable.
    It looks to me like it has already been run . . If the porting was done prior to it being run, then it obviously didn't catch a ring at that time, therefore, it shouldn't now.

    I would just make sure there is at least a small chamfer or radius along the top edge of the port.

    The fairly large upper corner radiuses/arc your exhaust has, also greatly reduce the chance of the ring catching . . From what I can tell by the photos, I wouldn't loose one minutes sleep over it.
    .

  13. #163
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    A sketch was made of my DG pipe this evening. I’m planning to send my specs into a company that will respond with what they calculate to be the best pipe design and I want to see how much it differs in design from the DG.
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    I think I have everything I’ll need with the exception of putting a tach on the trike and a 6” exhaust pipe and finding up where the power band hits when run like that. I don’t recall the reasoning, but I think it has something to do with matching the crankcase and intake volume. More on that later.

    A gallon of pre-mix was dumped into the tank and the engine was fired up. You can tell immediately that there’s less going on at low RPM than there was before and it seems to sing up pretty quickly, although I hate giving an engine in neutral much more than an aggressive blip, so I’ll have to get up up the ramp and onto the street ASAP.

    Next up after the pipe will be the swing arm. Not sure how I’m cutting it yet as I don’t have access to a large band saw, but I’ll figure something out. The end result will be an extra 4.0 inches so I can stay in the modified class at TF.
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    And finally the issue of aesthetics. To KTM or not to KTM, that is the final question. These Yamaha decals are itching to go on the new plastic, but then again there is always the option of covering the whole thing with racing stickers. Nothing screams high performance 2 stroke like a massive CRANE CAMS decal!
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  14. #164
    barnett468 is offline FACT ! I have no edit button Arm chair racerThe day begins with 3WW
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Camexican View Post
    And finally the issue of aesthetics. Nothing screams high performance 2 stroke like a massive CRANE CAMS decal!

    OMG...There goes my spleen.

    .

  15. #165
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    I'm curious, what's the company that is calculating your pipe design? I've used a program called the "Pipe Wizard" to calculated pipe dimensions but have yet to build one. On a side note, I just put an NOS Bassani on my Z and Wow! what a difference from the DG. The Bassani hits a lot harder than the DG but has a more narrow power band. Of course, you would expect that from the different designs. The condenser cone on the Bassani is steeper and shorter than the DG.

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