You think America has Immigration problems? See this...

[fabiodriven]

OK so pay someone $16 an hour to do a job that used to be done by a man doing it for $6 an hour. Who's eating that $10 an hour?

[sledcrazyinCT]

You just will not get American people who will work half as hard as that for even $8 an hour, you just won't find it. These people will shrivel up and die before they will work half as hard as that for double the money. They are all addicted to something, both legal and illegal, softened up on cheeseburgers and pizza, every one of them has an "ailment" or a "condition" for some reason or another, some crutch to lean on or benefit from, addictions count people! That's a disease! Wheelchair because you're a fat slob? Sure! Here's one with a motor and a trailer for chicken wings. Just keep em fat, high, calm, and happy. What needs to be realized is that these people are so hard on the tit, they cannot get off of it. They rely on it, they depend on it. They will die if left to their own devices or if they're required to fend for themselves. Many already turn to crime far before the thought of getting a job crosses their mind, so if you make it even harder for them than it already is, is that supposed to be a boot in the ass? It's too hard already, let's make it harder for them and now they'll work. Doesn't sound right to me, I don't think that will work.

OK we just keep a bad situation going? Addicts need to go cold turkey- if some die in the process that is a fact of life. I don't believe every person like Redsox described is just going to call it quits. Most humans will want to live, sure some will go out and steal instead of work, sure some might continue to do meth or heroine and OD, but as glamy pointed out if he needs to eat he is going to take any job and not a hand out, there are many others with this same mindset.

Not to get into a huge debate, but if the gov't benefits dried up then there is, or will be, a plan B for many people. Redsox mentions the takers are not to blame and for the most part it is human nature to take the path of least resistance.

Lazy is a mindset or a lifestyle created by politicians to buy votes.... Lazy is a life style cultivated on many college campuses...the fact a person can graduate with a four year degree simply does not entitle them to start on the top rung of society, or to come into a new job fresh out of school with zero real life work experience and start at a better rate or position then a senior employee.

Excessive entitlements have caused a great deal of this problem, pull the plug and get back to the basics, when the EBT card stops working the baby daddy gets off his arse and finds a JOB. Illegal immigrants are just another crutch to keep LAZY capable people from taking care of themselves.

As for keeping costs down and getting the shitty jobs done if you are rotting in jail and not a convicted murderer start working at ZERO salary.

For the record I approve of legal immigration do it the right way and I have no issue at all.

[ironchop]

I noticed a fundamental shift in the "virtues" we used to teach our children right about the time I was graduating Highschool. It may have been prevalent before I noticed but nevertheless, there was a shift. The 80s brought us "role models" like tom cruise in Risky Business, Douglas in that Wall Street flick, and even our "family sitcom" produced a whole slew of Alex P Keatons who were driven by the almighty dollar or a whole mess of "tragically rich" children like Silver Spoons, Different Strokes, or the movie The Toy with Pryor. Point being we were all taught that MONETARY success was all that mattered. You are judged by what you can afford to wipe your ass with and even a ghetto child can find sweet redemption as long as some Old money white guy adopts them and saves them from their predicament or if they were lucky enough to attend a prestigious private school like the girls in Facts of Life. On the other end of the spectrum of Law, Miami Vice taught us that to have a Testarossa and a beachfront crib filled with poofy-haired bikini wearing pool landscape was the ultimate achievement and measure of success if even it could land you in the GreyBar motel eventually. Our working class heroes were either tragically unhappy (like Al Bundy or Dan from Roseanne), forever struggling like the families in One Day at a Time.

There were no romantizations of the Blue Collar heroes. We tried in vain to portray Money as NOT the solution to everyone`s problems with shows like Dallas and Falcon Crest when all that really just whitewashed the idea and left all of us thinking that at least rich folks have interesting drama but at the end of the day, they still have a $1,000 bottle of Scotch poolside while contemplating their "problems".....Like it or not, television drives culture right or wrong and culture has a tremendous impact on shaping young minds which is still evident today. Only difference being today`s culture is shaped on social media. We were taught that money was the ONLY path to happiness even if it wasn`t true. We were taught that ultimately, only Money mattered whereas it concerned the way folks and society judge one another. My family was FARMERS but my mom shunned all that and pushed us into college because she and most of my highschool teachers taught us that you gain prestige and respect by the car you drive and the address you come home to. Honor, Integrity, Mastery are no longer taught to our children and if they are, they are considered interchangeable and optional........cheat at tests, cheat in sports, cheat your investors, cheat the Government, cheat the constituents, lie on your resume, lie to your wife, lie to yourself, lie to your boss, lie to the cops, and lie to the IRS....all will be rewarded with women, fame, riches, material things, careers, trophies, and FREEDOM.

what happens if your lies and cheating threaten to destroy you rather than enrich you? Well modern Society has a fix for that too....a "Bailout"

Greed and every other selfish sin has thoroughly infected our society and this is why nobody wants a job working hard for $250 a week when you can sell dope for $1000 every two days. Nobody wants to flip a burger until they get off work, jump into their embarrassing cars and drive home to their mobile home park when the Freebie check affords them twice the standard of living, a free section 8 apartment, and all their "leaders" convince them that they are "entitled" to this SHYTE because Life=No Fair. There are NO rewards for folks with "principles". Nobody worships the guy who picks up your trash can once a week. We don`t even mow our own yards anymore because we think we are entitled to a slick lawn without having to get dirty over it. We don`t reward hard work. We don`t encourage anyone to emulate a Blue Collar worker. We vilify the Trades and the "troubled kids" whom learn a trade and we exhalt the 4yr drinking program often referred to as "college". We even convince everyone already adult that the only salvation for losing their jobs due to the actions of others is for YOU to go BACK to school and drop another 35K on another degree....because your predicament is your fault......unless, of course, you never intended on working and then your predicament is Society`s fault and Society`s problem.

Don`t work on your lawn....pay some Mexican to do that. He`s just eating up your tax dollars getting free healthcare and whatnot
Don`t deal with the pain.....buy a pill or pay a doctor because you deserve to feel no pain whatsoever
Don`t be self sufficient.....because that makes you an "anti-social" freak
Don`t grow your own food.....pay some Mexican to grow it for you
Don`t even get out of your car....we have drive thru windows for everything now
Don`t work hard....life is short and it means you are either self deprecating, uneducated, or unintelligent
Don`t pay full price for American goods....that Chinese 9 year old has a family to support too and the more you save at Walmart, the more liquor and drugs you can afford to ease the pain of your empty and unfulfilling lives. Plus how else will you afford that house (read: respect and prestige)?
Don`t take responsibility for your actions......they are merely the result of a two-hundred year old leadership of some white guy and of society as a whole
Don`t raise your kids right.....it "takes a village" and children should be honored and catered to only because some guy who wrote a book about how to raise kids said so.
Don`t tell the Truth....it`s often ugly and hurts the feelings of those with easily hurt feelings
Don`t be nice.....nice people finish last
Don`t be charitable.....it`s a sign of weakness

Two people.....A Hedge Fund manager and a Sanitation Engineer walk into a school. The Hedge Fund manager lied on his resume, tax returns, to his wife, to his investors, to himself, cheated and swindled and makes 9 million a year, pays someone to change his kid`s diapers and sends them away to a prestigious school. He has no loyalty, no honor, no Integrity and yet he has 4 vacation homes and a 400,000$ Bentley.............Sanitation Engineer works 14 hour days, changes his own kids diapers, drives his kids to school himself in a `76 AMC Pacer before his 14 hr day at work starts, is loyal to his wife, loyal to his kids, teaches his kids that lying and thieving make you a loser. He makes 41K a year.

now these are ONLY examples for the sake of conversation BUT.......regardless of the lack of personal integrity and being openly selfish, the Hedge Fund manager will be the guy everyone wants to be. He`s the guy who is the example when your guidance counselor tells you "you can be anything you want to be". He`s the guy most parents mean when they say "you need to go to college and get a degree if you ever hope to amount to anything in Life" It doesn`t matter if the Antichrist himself is the Wolf of WallStreet because Money (Power) is the ultimate goal. He`s the guy who makes the commencement speech at NYU for the class of 2015. The Sanitation engineer makes a speech at the end of your driveway regarding your being over the established curb limit of just 6 bags of trash.

The "Sanitation Engineer"? Well, he`s the sad chap whom people look at and say "I`m glad I got an education". He`s the guy whom gets booted at the front door of your local Country Club. He`s the guy nobody wants to be giving their kids a pep talk. He`s the one everyone assumes is stupid because if he were even remotely intelligent, then he would not be a lowly sanitation engineer.....Money = Success = Happiness = Worthy of your love, admiration, and respect.....all this despite the fact that he is 100 times the Man that wall street snake is but being a Rich little punk is far more desirable than being a courageous and hard working Manly Man....Besides, you don`t want to live in a van down by the River do you?

Until we remove these stigmas, nothing else will change.......raising minimum wage won`t help. Welfare won`t help. Class Warfare won`t help. Charity won`t help.

If Money weren`t worshipped like a paper God, then MAYBE folks would not be so quick to deny a fair living to other folks because they feel the need to hoard every penny they can so they can afford to lay about like a wannabe Roman Emperor.

I teach my kids to be FRUGAL (except with trikes lol).....I teach them honesty, integrity, and honor. I teach them Loyalty and the value of hard work. Most of all I teach them that DESPITE the current accepted "examples" of the Unscrupulous permeating our Nation, that only those previously aforementioned character traits are desirable.....rich OR poor

I`m probably just dreaming

[83ATC185]

I'm glad to see someone else sees things the way i do. In my eyes, success isn't an expensive car or big house or anything material for that matter. If you're doing what you want in life, and have the decency to support yourself and have the integrity to stand up for what you believe and not conform to anyone's mold for your life, that's success. I see this country as being full of people that don't ever get an opportunity to express themselves in the way they want or do what they want to with their lives, because the conform to the molds and the ideas of success that every one else has for them.

I feel like this is the reason a lot of our freedoms are slowly disappearing. We are all striving to be one thing. People are predictable and soft and have a certain set of needs that must be met before they are happy. I see myself slowly changing from a "got to have it" to taking a step back and asking myself what do i really need? What do i really want out of my life? Am i going to spend the rest of my life stuck being what everyone wants me to be or am i going to do what makes sense to me?

Ironchop your post was spot on. The world sees everything wrong as ok, so long as you get one step higher on the ladder. Too bad what no one sees is there's nothing at the top.

[sweetip2000]

This is what happens when gummintZ offer free hand outs at the expense of others. Its ok you can take your meds and go back to sleep now. Ignorance is a fashion .......

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Guys, people need to see this. The video is very graphic, but you can just read the story if you would rather not watch the video. To say it is disturbing is a gross understatement. http://pamelageller.com/2015/02/watc...-revenge.html/

Now, all of the economic debate on illegal immigration aside, and whether it is an economic gain or loss for us...

The people doing this found a way to use our own commercial jet liners as weapons. (I do not believe 911 was an inside job)

Does anyone taking part in this conversation honestly believe that these people cannot or will not find a way to exploit our open borders??? These people want to bring this kind of terror to the streets of Everytown USA.

Just remember this story the next time Uncle Barry (as Redsox put it) preaches to us about how islam is a religion of peace..and that not all muslims are terrorists. That may be so, but damn too many of them are, and they need to be dealt with!


This alone is enough reason for me to fully support a controlled border with orderly, legal immigration, and with thorough vetting of prospective immigrants.

With the world in turmoil as it is, secure the border now. Then we can have a conversation on what to do with illegals already here, and having a program that would allow Mexicans to come here and work legally if they choose and after they are vetted.

[redsox]

My defense of the rich should not be taken as an indictment of the middle class, or any class for that matter. I understand the sanitation/executive analogy. i would argue that the comparison is flawed though. Your example compared a decent person that worked in sanitation with a scumbag executive. Apples and oranges. There are scum executives, and scum sanitation workers, just as there are good people in all classes. This was a discussion about immigration that turned to an economy discussion. Is the argument now that if you have economic success you're unethical and a snake? I don't agree. People get rich from hard work and dedication. Not all rich people get rich that way, but many do. Being smart, thinking ahead, and working hard at something you love can make you rich in this country. There are not a lot of places that can say the same. The closer we come to socialism, the further we get from this fact.

Ride-Red, i saw that video. sickening. This is what we're up against. Nightmare.

[ironchop]

Yer hung up too much thinking im indicting the rich or successful. As I pointed out this was merely an example for the sake of discussion....

Let me clarify
Two guys, different ethics. The one who is most likely to be hailed as a role model for all is the one who brings home more cash every week. Even if he sucks as a human. Your bank account and pile of material goods is all that matters to anyone. Your character means nothing. This is WRONG in my opinion. This is the basis for my example. There are no hidden messages of "eat the rich" in my posts and frankly, I don`t understand why you are obsessing over this perception for your last few replies. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE RICH. I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SNAKES......Rich snakes get to decide national policy. Poor snakes do not. Arguing that there are snakes in every demographic is a moot point. The only snake with a voice is a rich snake. That's just how it is.

[ironchop]

Econ is not off topic for this discussion. People aren't pouring over the border for American schools or American healthcare. They come for American money.

Unchecked immigration destroys the economy. Thinking it helps is Television News logic.

I don`t get my facts from TV. I go to the sources. I talk with immigrants nearly every day. At work, at lunch, on my street, at the doctor`s office. These folks are everywhere n Bowling Green. We have Bosnians, Cameroonians, Mexicans, Cambodians, Guatemalans, El Salvadoreans, one guy from Belize who wants to go back, a few Serbs, a lot of eastern Indians Hindu, Muslim, and Sikh, a lot of Chinese, some Vietnamese. The Feds had decided this part of Kentucky was a good place for "integration". I could go on and on but you get the point.

So they make American dollars but where do you think those dollars go? They don`t go right back into the American economy. Almost every immigrant I ever spoke with says they send a large portion of their earnings HOME to help their families abroad and the line at the Walmart Western Union office every Friday will confirm this. American dollars are leaving the American economy pure and simple

[83ATC185]

^as well as to have their children, who will be born citizens here. Illegal immigration is barely noticeable at first, just extra help on the job, whatever, but years pass, those immigrants have kids, the parents move back, forcefully or otherwise, and their children become pipelines for our money. I agree that at this point, our economy cant survive without them. it goes without saying that anytime our society leans on anything, be it the help of illegal immigrants, or government programs or anything but our own abilities and desires to better ourselves, it puts our country in great danger.

People don't realize that there is a price to be paid for not doing something yourself. The only people that realize that seem to be the people that do things for themselves. That said, i feel like there is no way to end the problems we have today in this country.

The only way things will change is if the slate is wiped clean by some event and people are forced to do for themselves, which will in effect turn us into a third world country because we no longer even have the ability to produce what we need even if we did have the desire.

As for our borders, i feel like the only thing that will stop illegal immigration is when there's nothing to be gained by coming here. That, and drawing a line in the sand and the order to fire at will.

As of late i have quit watching the news, and quit following world events and what Uncle Barry is saying today. I do understand the importance of keeping up with whats going on in the world, but all this stuff i heard was making me question what was real, what wasn't, and what was [I]really[I] important in the world. I can tell you guys, the difference it has made in my life is incredible. I'm a much happier person. I am prepared for and content with whatever happens in this life because at this point its beyond our control.

[ironchop]

Guys, people need to see this. The video is very graphic, but you can just read the story if you would rather not watch the video. To say it is disturbing is a gross understatement. http://pamelageller.com/2015/02/watc...-revenge.html/

Now, all of the economic debate on illegal immigration aside, and whether it is an economic gain or loss for us...

The people doing this found a way to use our own commercial jet liners as weapons. (I do not believe 911 was an inside job)

Does anyone taking part in this conversation honestly believe that these people cannot or will not find a way to exploit our open borders??? These people want to bring this kind of terror to the streets of Everytown USA.

Just remember this story the next time Uncle Barry (as Redsox put it) preaches to us about how islam is a religion of peace..and that not all muslims are terrorists. That may be so, but damn too many of them are, and they need to be dealt with!


This alone is enough reason for me to fully support a controlled border with orderly, legal immigration, and with thorough vetting of prospective immigrants.

With the world in turmoil as it is, secure the border now. Then we can have a conversation on what to do with illegals already here, and having a program that would allow Mexicans to come here and work legally if they choose and after they are vetted.

Yeah we have already locally experienced this but it was with LEGAL immigrants who were Iraqis. The storage facility where they were storing machine guns and some rocket launchers is across the street from where I work. Check it:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/30/justic...ces/index.html

[redsox]

Chop. I agree completely. I don't know how I became the defender of the rich, as it was just one of the points I wanted to get to about the early comments of the video. But it just went that way, i guess. I never meant to get stuck on it. I'll move on to another little criticism i had of the video. Very early on, (first 13 seconds) the reporter tosses out a buzz word that always burns my ears. Climate change. People getting displaced because of climate change??? The only people displaced by climate change are the old-money, New England snow birds who are buying homes in boca from our good friend and founder who shall remain nameless. Anytime the climate card is pulled, i question the motives and politics of the source. Vice Media made the video. i did a little reading and they're an eclectic group. Once on the PBS dole from NYC public funds, they've gone through a bunch of evolutions including a sex publication, having Rupert Murdoch as a minority investor, and having CNN fail at a buyout. Now it seems they've picked up the pieces of what was the DIY network and are funded by the same people at ESPN and Walt Disney. They're growing. In my opinion, they subscribe to the "Europe is Better" model of American Neo-Liberalism. (is that a thing?) If you don't know what I mean, i'll give you an example. Remember when Madonna started speaking with a British accent? Thats exactly what I mean. Its not a traditional, Jimmy Carter Liberalism. It more of an uber-cool, post Al Gore, computer age, hipster, i'm-26-years-old-but-know-better-than-you, liberalism. I think the video has its moments, but there is production value and sensationalism apparent everywhere. I'm of the school that if you lie to me a little, you're lying to me a lot. So, its tough to take their numbers and stats at face value. i don't have the time (or ability, or desire) to check them, but i'd bet my last beer that the numbers are inflated. So, i'll just sit here like an old man and mutter "fiddlesticks." In closing, i'll answer the question you posed in the title of the thread. YES.

[ironchop]

.... In my opinion, they subscribe to the "Europe is Better" model of American Neo-Liberalism. (is that a thing?) If you don't know what I mean, i'll give you an example. Remember when Madonna started speaking with a British accent? Thats exactly what I mean. Its not a traditional, Jimmy Carter Liberalism. It more of an uber-cool, post Al Gore, computer age, hipster, i'm-26-years-old-but-know-better-than-you, liberalism. I think the video has its moments, but there is production value and sensationalism apparent everywhere......

LMFAO.....I agree wholeheartedly

And its funny you mentioned that distinction because it is ABSOLUTELY the kind of liberalism that our own current crop of leadership/celebs want for America. The Europe model. I forgot to mention that one of the points I wanted to make was that when you get the "Europe model" you get European problems as the video depicts. The difference between you and I and those type of Liberals is THEY see it as a humanitarian issue (to let them in) and you and I see it as a dangerous precedent and potentially deadly issue for ALL people and not just those who are stuffed under a Moroccan Ford Escort. I hope that makes sense. While I do feel for these people it is from a stand-off kind of perspective. While I want an Ebola victim to get some potentially life-saving treatment, I don`t want that Ebola patient getting flown into the USA thereby putting the entire country at risk and if it means they die waiting well one dead is still better than thousands. That's the best analogy I can think of.

Yes the video I put up would indeed have a neo liberal slant to it. It was a liberal media outfit who made the entire thing. Anymore these days, I find myself playing "info disseminator" with so many stories and documentaries because it seems "slant" is so prevalent. I figured this much, the actual video of the lengths the Spanish had to go through in order to try and stop this illegal flow is well documented with the footage. I also think the determination of these people to face beatings and death is also well documented with the vid. The commentary is sometimes obviously questionable but I didn`t think it had as much bias as a Michael Moore Doc so I posted it lol. These people are desperate with nothing left to lose and while I want to be fair, I can`t help but remember that those with nothing to lose are despotic and a despot is a dangerous and unpredictable thing.

VICE (the people who shot that) even has a couple of ex Obama Administration members on it`s BoD so I expected as much

BTW...."climate change" is a real trigger for me too. Like fightin words. My wife and I argue about that topic once a week it seems. She drank the koolaid and I always call BS.....those are the days I don`t get laid if you can imagine

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Yeah we have already locally experienced this but it was with LEGAL immigrants who were Iraqis. The storage facility where they were storing machine guns and some rocket launchers is across the street from where I work. Check it:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/30/justic...ces/index.html

I don't doubt it one bit. A couple of years after 9-11, there was an islamist terrorist cell caught near Buffalo NY with ties in Canada if I recall the locations correctly. And you are right, they are already here.

But this is where I feel more thorough vetting of immigrants may help. Yes, it may take more boots on the ground, yes it may take more time for these people to in-process.. But frankly, I don't care. If they really want to come here, and are doing it for the right reasons (mainly not killing us or putting more burden on our already strained welfare system) then they will deal with it and do what is necessary to gain entry.

Obviously, it is impossible to catch every single would-be terrorist at the border, even with a revamped system of vetting immigrants. But any sane society/government should do it's level best to keep that number at the absolute minimum. And step #1 to this process is controlling the border effectively.

Boiled down, this is a 2-part problem. Part 1: we are not controlling our border adequately. So how the hell can we possibly know who is coming in?? Part 2: Those who ARE caught here illegally are not being deported for the most part.. And that number is now growing under the current regime.

And I'm sorry, but the whole argument about "tearing families apart" buys no sympathy from me, referring to the so-called "dreamers" and anchor babies here. It's very very simple... If one does not want their family torn apart, then do not break our laws and violate our sovereignty. If one chooses to take that risk (as if there really is any risk any more) then one must be prepared to deal with the consequences.

In no way am I trying to sidetrack the conversation.. But ever notice how the argument against deportation seems to revolve around the "impossibility" of deporting 11-20 million people?? Yet these same people vigorously enforce unconstitutional firearms regulations on the tens of millions of citizen firearms owners in this country... Anyone else see the double standard in the general enforcement of laws at the federal level in this country?? They are flat out ignoring Article 4, section 4 of the constitution which charges the federal government with securing our borders... and then they flat out step outside of its enumerated powers when it comes to 2a... Well, there is a grain of consistency, they are ignoring the constitution on both counts.....

But what other laws do they choose not to enforce because it's "just too difficult to enforce"??? Does anyone think that if 10 million people quit paying their taxes that the IRS would just throw it's hands up and say there are "just too many to handle"??? How about drunk driving?? I would take a guess that 10s of thousands drive drunk every single day in this country.. DO we see them giving up on enforcing DWI laws?? And back to gun laws... does anyone think for one second that if 10 million US citizens decided to start modifying semi-auto AR15's into fully automatic M16's that the BATFE would just let it go because there are just too many???

These people in the current regime are so transparent in their motives, it insults me that they think we buy this load of tripe!

[Scootertrash]

I'm glad to see many of you younger guys(?) having your in a group when it comes to this stuff. At least I assume most of you in this thread are younger (I'm 55 in April).

So here's my take on these issues. None of my comments are directed at anyone in particular. If the shoe fits, as they say.

Immigration is far more than jobs/economic issue. The Democrat/Liberals want to let them stay because once the illegal immigrants (they are not undocumented, they are here because they violated our immigration laws, period) have the right to vote, who do you think they will vote for? The people who let them stay here and gave them all kinds of stuff "free". Well, free to them anyways, supplied by the blood sweat and tears of the middle class and rich. Yea, contrary to popular Liberal talking points the rich do pay taxes. Sure, they get a "discounted" tax on capital gains, but I'm gonna bet that there isn't one person here who wouldn't take advantage of the same tax break if they had the chance.

The other problem with our south of the border friends as well as those illegals from many other countries is that they are accustomed to crooked politicians, bribery of politicians and law enforcement by criminals and drug cartels and are familiar with the ramifications if they speak up. So they keep their heads down and don't say anything because "There's nothing I can do about it" (More on that later). So they come here for that same reason, only to be used as pawns by our government to facilitate the same environment they just left.

The Rich So someone has more money than you? Cry me a river. They don't owe anyone anything. Sure, there are some rich that were born with a sliver spoon in their mouths, but do you think that their parents, or grandparents, or great grand parents didn't work for their fortune? You don't get rich by sitting around on your ass drinking beer, passing a left handed cigarette and b!tching because someone has more than you.

Name me another country where a college drop out can go out to his parents garage with a buddy start messing around with computer related stuff and turn it into a multi billion dollar company and not have the government take control of it. Go ahead, I'll wait:



I've run my own small business, I can only imagine what it takes to turn it into a multi-million dollar business. Most of those whiners who complain about greedy business owners have never even tried to start a business let alone run one for a few years.

So until you've taken out a second mortgage to start a business, worked 14/16/18 hour days for 7 days a week, given up time with your wife and kids, not going to ball games, recitals and plays for your children, and not taking vacations because you have a business to run for the 3-5 years it takes to be considered a "successful, profitable business", then a few more years until you find trustworthy employees that won't try to rob you blind because "you're a rich plucker". I'm not going to listen to your whiney ass sob stories of how someone has it "better" than you.

Here's a harsh reality, and no, I'm not criticizing: There is not one person on this site who couldn't have done better in life, MYSELF INCLUDED. Went to college, community college, trade school or whatever. Worked more hours, done a little more ass kissing at work to move up the ladder, worked late more often, etc.

The only one responsible for where they are at in life is themselves.

There will ALWAYS be someone who has more than you.

A little FYI for those who need a little shot of reality: Guess who is in charge of all of those Communist, Socialist, Dictatorships in the world? The rich. Yup, that's right. Guess what? they don't "share the wealth" either. In Socialist/Communist countries there are only 2 classes: The Working Class and the Elite Ruling Class, there is no Middle Class. Both forms of government drag the middle class down so everyone but the Ruling Class is miserable.

I have another thread I'll start on minimum wage/success later today, as well as one on media bias.

One more thing: For those who say "There's nothing I can do about it", that's a whiney cop out, and one of the reasons this country is turning to shyte. If every person I ever heard say that would actually do SOMETHING we wouldn't be where we are at today.

So there you have it. Flame me. Hate me. Call me names. Whateva. I base my ethical and moral standards on what made this country successful. It wasn't a bunch whiney ass crybabies lookin for handouts.