225DR/DX brake woes

[fabiodriven]

I've said how terrible the brakes are on these boards regarding this particular model trike before and to the best of my recollection I don't think many agreed with me. Over the last two weeks my DR and SX have been run side by side through the Arkansas wilderness by my brother in law and myself and I've had nothing but brake failures on my DR almost constantly. This is the norm for this bike which has had brake issues from the very beginning and it's time to address it.

The only two bikes I've ever owned that have had brakes this terrible have both been Yamahas. My IT175 had front and rear drums which gave out completely after fording one river. It ruined the rest of the day. The DR has had an array of brake problems. Its first problem is the front brake is just too small, period. It is always working at maximum capacity and needs to be adjusted often. This is compounded by the fact that the rear brakes are doing so little to slow the machine most of the time so the already overwhelmed front brake has to pick up the slack. I wouldn't be sure what to do about the front just yet and would rather concentrate on the rear which is essentially ballast in factory form.

I've had two separate problems with the rear that seem to compliment each other quite nicely. One problem is in theory at this point, but at times there was no slack in my brake lever as if the brakes were already applied. This was because they were already applied. They were dragging even if they hadn't been applied, they were applying themselves. They would sometimes release but of their own accord, just whenever they felt like it. When they released the lever would pull normally again, then it was a matter of time before they would hang up once again. I had to roll backwards down a hill and they just would not allow me to. Upon disassembly it was found that the floating disk that rides on splines cut into the axle is too worn causing the rotor to "cock" on the axle and grab the brake pads who then assisted in holding the rotor in this cocked position as it rotated with the axle. Being out of town my solution was to put motor oil (I don't have any grease) on the splines and that solved that problem for now. Brakes were adjusted back up and better than ever. For a day.

The following day we got the bikes into some water. They could handle much more than we were in. The SX performed flawlessly. As a matter of fact I do believe it's been years since I've adjusted the brakes on the SX. I've not stopped adjusting the brakes on the DR ever. As soon as the brakes on the DR got wet they flew south. Just completely gone after a couple mild applications. Adjusted them up once again the next morning and got them a little wet again and just nothing, right to the bars with the lever. These brakes are completely useless and a waste of time as far as I'm concerned.

I don't have all the time in the world right this second, but when I can mess with it the only thing I can think of doing is converting the rear to hydraulic disk as opposed to the useless mechanical setup. I figure it should be easy enough to build a caliper mount and then just run one line to the handlebar. I'll have to make the rotor stationary instead of the floating setup it is now. I'm thinking I'll just cut two lands in the axle for circlips that will hold the rotor where it needs to be. Ta-daa! It's not going to happen tomorrow but it needs to get done.

[81ATC185S]

Wait you actually use your brakes? Wow I just up shift. In all seriousness though, I have a bud that went through so much water with his 84 moto 4 and barely had to adjust his brakes, but those are drum. Maybe your cables stretched? Try better pads, maybe yours are either cheap china ones or metal on metal?

[tripledog]

At the risk of sounding condescending or insulting, have you checked the condition, lubrication, and routing of the brake cables and presence of return springs? Also, the quality of many of the oem brake components were of questionable quality when new, and several decades of use have likely done little to enhance their performance. Time and age will decrease the quality of nearly anything, with the possible exception of wine and cheese.

[DohcBikes]

Hey John.

I have been told that a yamaha blaster hydraulic rear is an easy conversion. I know for sure that the blaster disc will swap which opens up aftermarket options as well and have heard that the caliper bolts on. My current dx will be a test mule. Just got the frame back from the sand blaster so it's going to be a while but I will be ordering the caliper soon. My front end is being swapped with a complete 200x front including the hydraulic disc.

The blaster was originally a mechanical disc as well and was revised to hydraulic, in later models 03 and up I believe. Obviously the bulk of the work will be in mounting the master and pedal setup.

[just ben]

I havnt really ridden my dr but the front brakes were just about out of anymore adjustment. So I ordered new shoes (oem) and was very surprises when I removed the wheel to install them. The old shoes also oem looked new still but I installed the new ones anyway,yet they still took up a lot of the adjustment and still had little stopping power. Knowing that wasn't right I took it apart again and that's when I realized the shoes are slightly thicker on one side which means they are directional. I flipped the shoes around and sure enough I still have almost full adjustment left and tons of stopping power now.

[fabiodriven]

Ben I've not had the front apart since I put the bike together but I'd like to think I would have checked for a leading shoe. Thanks a lot for bringing that up though because I'm not positive I did!

Damon that's some fantastic information right there and I thank you!

Tripledog, this bike was completely gone through a couple years ago when I got it. All shoes, pads, cables, etc. were all replaced when I got it. Everything that was available OEM was replaced with OEM. Anything that was not available OEM was replaced with aftermarket. I admittedly push this machine past its intended limits. It spends a lot of time in 4th and 5th on "normal" trails and I prefer to "Billy goat" it off the trails and into places where no person has set foot in a very long time, or possibly ever. Over the last two weeks we've been climbing and descending very steep ridges in the middle of nowhere and I won't pretend these brakes have it easy. The SX has been fine though. I'm just asking too much of the factory mechanical disk setup.

[Jmoozy27]

Where in arkansas are y'all riding? Very nice trails that way. Lots of wildlife to awe at.

[El Camexican]

I have invested a fair bit of time and cash into the brakes on my YTM which I believe is nearly identical to the DR with respect to the stoppers and I am not happy.

Even when the trike was brand new the front would take a dump when wet and then squeal like a pig after it started working again. I seem to recall the only way to get rid of the squeal was to pull the shoes and scuff them with sandpaper. When all is well they do have a nice feel, but nothing like a hydraulic disc.

The rear baffles me. There is no good reason it shouldn't work well, but it doesn't. The cable adjustments are a compromise between a pedal that comes on too late, or a hand brake that is too tight to work as a parking brake. To top it off it feels like the rear cable stretches when you use it hard, but in reality its most likely soft adjuster nuts mushrooming and the funky dual cable hook/lever flexing rather than applying the force to the pads. At the end of it all I usually end up downshifting the crap out of it when I need to scrub speed off as I KNOW that works consistently.

I recalled posting about this before, but wanted to make sure my opinion was still the same

Interesting what Ben said about the front shoes. I'll be pulling my front off some to add DR forks and will check them. Mine front works ok for a cable brake, it's just that I'm spoiled by years of one finger hydraulic brakes, but they do go for a poo when wet. Maybe you can put a 45 degree cut across the pads with a grinder in a few places to shed water?

The rear on mine still works a bit like a light switch, but again, nothing like a hydraulic brake would. If you end up doing what DOHC suggested please make a thread on it.

Good to see you back on here

[Dirtcrasher]

There must be some reasons you like that DX because your SX was unstoppable. And the 86/87 SX keep out all the water/dirt out with the improved design from the 85 SX that sucked....

It was back in 1998 when my home was built I wanted exactly that, A DX. Back then we still had the Want Advertiser and after awhile of searching for a shaft driven DX, I went and grabbed an 85 SX and I was very happy with it due to my lack of knowledge of the prior acquired DX which was back in roughly 1989. I loved it and wanted another DX however, I purchased what popped up. And a bit down the road I found out I had to swap to the 86/87 rear brake enclosure by changing the whole swingarm etc etc. I think your SX is an 86?? So, that's all set.

I had 2 Blasters, both mechanical piston caliper and both seized. I never read anything good about them and I just couldn't keep the water out of them and I assumed that was the issue at hand. I converted the 2000 Blaster, (which I'd love to see one converted to a trike), on my ex GF rode and it was great once completed. It was definitely 2003 when they changed to hydraulic.

Although many of us are aware of the increase in stopping power with a solid front brake, I would most certainly convert to a hydraulic rear brake caliper if it could be done with just a bit of work to adapt the disc with a hyd caliper and hopefully your splines on the axle aren't too shot. And without seeing your front hub and possible caliper mounting, you may want to take a peak about upgrading that as well because it seems like in this case your worn parts were replaced with all new parts as you had said; Yet it continues to operate poorly. IDK if the drum is glazed or the shoes are subpar or water gets trapped in there, but you're well aware that the splined axle/drum flopping around isn't helping much. It doesn't make sense and I know you know your chit.....

I can't fathom why else the front or rear aren't working in it's stock design. Obviously I've seen your DX in the past and it's in very good condition so I'm ruling out excessive wear.

So, it seems like the rear you may have a solution for. But tearing off that whole sealed brake shoe housing and upgrading it to a hydraulic disc may require some spacers and a way to keep the rotor in place. IDK if it has a seal behind that OEM backing plate or how Yamaha designed that system. Maybe it's sealed at the differential for the oil and there is a seal on that brake pad enclosure just for dirt/water entry?? I remember you had an electrical issue on the MIK6 ride but I don't recall you mentioning the brakes being as bad as your describing now.

I recall looking at that parts diagram for my buddy Johnathan (but he lives in Springfield, I think his was a DR and IDK the differences) and I couldn't view that side using the key words "axle/rear brake/swingarm" etc. etc. Admittedly not spending allot of time searching for his issue but he did tell me he got EBAY brake parts and quickly they didn't work well. He told me his splines were seized and he about destroyed it taking it apart....

[DohcBikes]

Fabio if you end up needing another axle I got ya covered.

DC I haven't done the blaster swap yet but I have modded the rear brake on a DX to eliminate the enclosed B.S. housing and it did not require any real fab work, just a little ingenuity to get the adjustment in spec, which had to do with the space that was taken up by the cover. There is no real seal and in fact there is a gaping hole in the cover that allows whatever in there. I also replaced the soft adjusters with a grade 2 bolt and nut adjustment setup. For whatever reason, that rear brake worked at least twice as well after doing those mods. I have no real explanation for that improvement but it was significant. The blaster guys doing the hydraulic upgrade is what eventually led me to discover the possibility of the swap on the dx.

[86T3]

Scott wikersham recently did a hydraulic conversion on the rear of a dx, maybe get ahold of him and see what all was involved. And for the front, you should swap over to 350x or 250r. If you found someone putting inverts on theirs, you could get the used triples and forks they don't need and the stem would already be pressed out. My DR forks sucked, I imagine you feel the same way.

[DohcBikes]

Scott wikersham recently did a hydraulic conversion on the rear of a dx, maybe get ahold of him and see what all was involved. And for the front, you should swap over to 350x or 250r. If you found someone putting inverts on theirs, you could get the used triples and forks they don't need and the stem would already be pressed out. My DR forks sucked, I imagine you feel the same way.

The dx/dr front is super short and IMO 350x or 250r would be too tall. The 83-85 200x front is already borderline too tall. 200x frontend is an upgrade in every way and is more readily available. Also there is no need to press the stem out as the 200x front is nearly a bolt on. My .02.

As for the strength of the dx/r front, my dx was In VERY good original condition, one owner original mso and the whole deal. Frontend was still bent. They're all bent.


I will post a pic of the 200x front in a minute.

Edit: 200x front mockup: Note that in these pics the top clamp is just resting on the tubes, they were bent too lol. It was however a free front end that I had been lugging around for 2 years so I was happy to straighten the tubes and use it.




I have a few more somewhere with another, straight frontend fully bolted on somewhere let me look....

Crappy pic but there she is again the first day I tried it. It bolted right on. Just had to remove the steering stop from the dx. And a gratuitous shot of when it was still original.

[Howdy]

Years ago I had a guy come to the shop with similar rear brake issues. We tried a set of fully metallic pucks ( aftermarket ). I don't think he had much problem after that. If I remember correctly we got them from Chapperal's ( 10-15 years ago ). Not sure if they even make them anymore. I haven't ordered from them in at least 8 years.
Howdy