1980 Honda ATC with Pheonix engine, need help with starting!!

[khylenb]

Hi guys, just new to the forum and need some technical help, definatly think I have come to the right place!

I have just bought a Honda 1980 (from frame number) ATC with a Pheonix engine in (don't know too much about the engine??) and can't get it to start.

When I bought it it was up and running but had been sat for 6 months, I had a little test drive and all seemed fine. I then got it home and could only jump start it but would die within 30 seconds and then nothing!

I took the carb off and the top set snapped so I bought a new carb of eBay (only £20!) Put that on but still nothing. It has a good spark and 130 psi compression. It doesn't even sound like starting! I have tried a squirt of fuel in the spark plug hole but still no! Spark plug is pretty dry when I take it out after trying to start it, but has slight gas residue on it.

Any help would be absolutely amazing as I am running out of ideas!

Cheers guys!

[1979atc]

Timing could be off. Is it a Atc 90/110??

[khylenb]

Hi

Thanks for the reply!

Its a 110, not sure if the Phoenix engine is factory though?

[1979atc]

Post some pics of the engine.

[ps2fixer]

I second the pics of engine, where are you seeing "Phoenix" at? Doing a quick google search brings up a company selling V8 engines and offering machine shop work, so maybe the engine was worked on by them and the owner got some free stickers to slap around to give the business some free advertising?

You said you looked up the frame vin number, you gave us the year, but forgot to mention which model (atc70, atc110, or atc185?).

Based on your description so far, spark + fuel + compression = running engine in the most basic sense, so must be timing of the spark. Maybe the cam is 180 degrees off? A bad and sloppy timing chain could make it jump timing even if it was good timing before hand when it did run.

[Red Rider]

I have just bought a Honda 1980 (from frame number) ATC with a Pheonix engine in (don't know too much about the engine??) and can't get it to start.

I've heard of the Phoenix Foundation before, but I'm not sure if they did any engine work or porting though. If anyone at the Phoenix Foundation could do it, it was this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKTNWI0eYJ4

[Ghostv2]

You bought a carb off eBay? If you are not sure what the motor is or much about it how did you know what carb to buy? Or what jets to put in it? I know the 110 Chinese carbs I got off eBay had too small of jets in them. So I would start there and figure it out.

Actually I would take some pictures and post them on here so we can take a look and figure out what you have first. Pictures say a thousand words.

[khylenb]

Hi guys. I really really appreciate the help and advice, I honestly do so thank you all very much!

To confirm, it is a Honda 110 atc 1980. It appears that it may have had a new head put on it but I am not sure, it definitely appears to be a lot newer than the rest of the engine! I live in the UK and found this website:

http://www.phoenixrebore.co.uk

It may be that at some point some work was done here, which maybe the reason for the 'Phoenix' logo.

The guy I bought it off said that it had a dodgy carb and the carb was leaking fuel, so I took it apart and the top set nut snapped. I just presumed that it was the original Honda 110 carb so I bought a replacement Honda 110 1980 carb from Ebay. I changed the oil as the oil stunk of gas.

Hope this gives a bit more info!

[khylenb]

Another pic

[khylenb]

[khylenb]

Hi guys. Really really appreciate the help and comments, a lot!!

So to confirm it is a Honda 110 1980 atc. I presume it has had a new head at some point as it is a different colour to the rest of the engine! I live in the UK and found this web site:

http://www.phoenixrebore.co.uk/about-us.php

So it maybe at some point it had work done here, that would explain the 'Phoenix' logo. Still not sure if it is the original engine though? The guy I bought it off said that the carb was leaking, so when I removed it the top set nut snapped. I just presumed the carb was an original Honda 1980 110 carb so I just bought a replacement from Ebay. I changed the oil also as it was stinking of gas.

Many thanks for the help!

[khylenb]

Hi guys. Really really appreciate the help and comments, a lot!!

So to confirm it is a Honda 110 1980 atc. I presume it has had a new head at some point as it is a different colour to the rest of the engine! I live in the UK and found this web site called phoenix rebore.

So it maybe at some point it had work done there, that would explain the 'Phoenix' logo. Still not sure if it is the original engine though? The guy I bought it off said that the carb was leaking, so when I removed it the top set nut snapped. I just presumed the carb was an original Honda 1980 110 carb so I just bought a replacement from Ebay. I changed the oil also as it was stinking of gas.

Many thanks for the help!

[1979atc]

You have a different motor, it is not stock. Looks like someone tried to make it work. The motor might be Chinese but I'm not quite sure, Honda's were made in Japan. What color is the spark? You want a crisp blue spark. Yellow is weak which could be a weak coil, corroded connections, bare wires etc.. I would look at all wiring, make sure it has good spark, getting fuel, and make sure timing is correct.

[ps2fixer]

Is the new carb bolted on nice and tight? In the photos it looks loose/air gap on the front side of the engine. The side cover is engraved with the brand, so I guess most likely it is a china made engine with that name (never heard of them). I can see the wiring was worked with quite a lot, but it isn't the factory engine so kind of expected.

Did some quick searching and found a very similar engine which gives some specs. Based on the search I did it most likely is a 110cc, but some 125cc had the same engine code.

http://www.cncyclesparts.com/productDetail_437.html

I can see it is kick start and manual clutch. The china engine does not have a mechanical pulse generator spark advancer like the OEM engine had, so the advancement has to be done by the CDI, but I think it has the correct china cdi of what I can see.

On the left side of the engine is two removable caps for checking the timing. That is how to setup the crank for top dead center, but Not sure how you check the cam timing on those engines.

[Ghostv2]

If your trying to run it like that the jetting is going to be way off. No air box, no filter. As I said before they come with jets that are too small to start off with. Pull it, check what size jets it has in it. Just another thing to think about along with what these other guys are suggesting.

Should be a fun bike once it gets running.