450 Trike Opinions

[big specht]

You are trashing this thread with all this chest pounding BS

[matty]

Your ATC250R vibrates too much for you so you want a bike with a bigger engine?

Wow I'm very surprised to see a comment like this. A bigger engine does not mean more vibration it is way more about engine design. I have a raptor 700 and it vibrates way less than my 250r.

[barnett468]

Wow I'm very surprised to see a comment like this. A bigger engine does not mean more vibration it is way more about engine design. I have a raptor 700 and it vibrates way less than my 250r.

matty, that is a question, not a comment . Yes I know that big engines can have very low vibration and I know what factors contribute to it . We actually had a fairly bad vibration in the bars and foot pegs on a KLT engine at Kawi and that engine has a balancer, so we reduced it significantly by installing steel inserts into the end of the bars and using a different design for the footpeg . One way vibration is reduced is by installing rubber isolators in the engine where the mounting bolts go thru and/or rubber mounting the handlebars, and this was done from the factory on many older bikes and some of the Harleys even had foot platform isolators . There are actually some companies to sell anti vibration products for the bars these days . Below are just some of them, and one might consider trying this if their bars vibrate more than they like which is often the case when bigger engines or stroker kits or big bore kits etc are installed . Another simple vibration reducer is to put a cork or rubber plug into one end of the bars then fill them with lead shot then plug the other end . BB's will not work as well because they are harder and therefore won't dampen/absorb the vibration as well.

http://www.vibranator.com/

https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/s...lebar%20clamps


As far as the vibration of the atc250r goes, this is the first time I have ever heard anyone complain about it which makes me think that his may have had a problem . Many Honda guys on this site complain about the vibration on a TECATE as if it is so bad that it will literally cause ones arms to fall off and they rave about how smooth the atc250r is, and not all of these people have even ridden both bikes . I have ridden them both, and from what I can remember, my experience is that the atc250r has less vibration than most, if not all of the off road bikes I have ridden that were 250 cc's or larger, so I find it hard to believe that someone would think the vibration of an atc250r is so bad that they would want a bike that has even less, therefore I was curious about his comment which made think that maybe the one he had, vibrated more than most for some reason . In my experience, if an engine vibrated much less than the atc250r, it would hardly vibrate at all and I might then fall asleep while riding it, but then I was so used to the TECATE and my 450 Maico that I suppose any bike would have felt buttery smooth to me by comparison.

[barnett468]

POST CORRECTION

"...which makes me think that his may have had a problem."

should read:

"...which makes me think that yours may have had a problem."


"...I was curious about his comment..."

should read

"...I was curious about your comment..."

[Red Rider]

Your ATC250R vibrates too much for you so you want a bike with a bigger engine?

Wow I'm very surprised to see a comment like this. A bigger engine does not mean more vibration it is way more about engine design. I have a raptor 700 and it vibrates way less than my 250r.

matty, that is a question, not a comment . Yes I know that big engines can have very low vibration and I know what factors contribute to it .

By including the question mark at the end of the sentence, Barnett did indeed ask a question. But, by including the statement, "so you want a bike with a bigger engine" does imply that Barnett believes a bigger engine will vibrate more than the current 250R engine. If that is not Barnett's belief, as he has stated in his reply, then perhaps an alternate wording in his initial response could have avoided the confusion felt by all. Perhaps this would have conveyed what he was trying to say, "Your ATC250R vibrates too much?"

[barnett468]

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Yes, thanks Red Rider, that actually, was my main question, and the way you posed it would have been simpler and less confusing, but hey, that post was only one sentence so I think I should still get some sort of prize or something, and I didn't even say, The TECA....

Also, if it were me, I too would go with the killer forks if the finances allowed, however, if they didn't, but I had the funds to build it with conventional forks and it was just for recreational trail riding as matty stated it would be, I wouldn't let the fork issue prevent me from building one because it's certainly not like a set of big tube conventional forks are going to simply bend like a wet noodle, plus many conventional forks can be upgraded with a Gold valve from Race Tech which can provide a better overall ride.

http://www.racetech.com/


Also, there are some reasonably stout conventional forks like the ones on the 86 TECATE and those have 9.8" of travel . It's all good and well to have 32" of fork travel if you are going in a straight line, however, the taller the bike, the more tippy it will be if all else remains the same.

Below are just a few fork tube diameters to offer some perspective.

86 ATC350X ................. 35 mm
70's XR750 .................. 38 mm
86 ATC250R ................. 39 mm
86 KXT250 ................... 41 mm
90 GPZ900R ................. 41 mm


The GPZ weighed 500 lbs, had 4 cylinders, 113 bhp and a top speed of 150 mph which was the fastest in its class . Yes it had less travel than the TECATE which would have made the forks a bit less "flexy" if all else remained the same as the TECATE which it didn't since it weighed around 220 lbs more, had way more hp and torque and went more than twice as fast.

Evil Knievel jumped 14 Greyhound buses with a 300 lb Harley with the Cerriani forks, and the same model won the Grand National Championship several times with the same forks.
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[Mosh]

They will bend like a wet noodle....Evil plainly stated in his latest interviews and I quote...
" If I had the suspension these kids have today, I would have jumped over the moon"

Point being, stock forks have too much flex with a modern 4 stroke conversion. It is a fact. Just knowing the the center mass of weight on an invert fork being placed up top releases lower mass in the fork tube at the axle joint which inherently basically off physics of leverage make the USD forks far superior over any conventional fork with its mass located low to creat extra pressure on the thin tubes.

Yes you can run conventionals. But if you have ever seen somebody slam a small block chevy in a 3rd gen v6 based monte carlo without updating the v6 springs it simply is not done right. Period. Which is directly related here.

[DohcBikes]

Nobody said we had to choose from atc forks. There are a LOT of good conventional forks out there.

[loganm]

He's not responding to my PM but, it's not a leaf spring barnett. The fork should flex as little as possible and the load and shock absorption should come from the springs, shock, and tire, not the fork tubes themselves flexing. USD forks are far superior based solely on the fact the the outer tube can be as large and strong/stiff as possible and the inner tube, which is limited on thickness by having the fork springs and damping assy. inside, is located farther toward the end of the suspension assy., with less leverage acting on it.

Your cost argument is irrelevant. $1500 for a USD conversion, $3000 on a quad to hack up. That's $4500. RZRs are everywhere and those go for $20k+ new. Get off your ass and work some overtime if you need to, do it right.

@DOHCbikes: if you're going to the trouble to make triple clamps and axle, brakes, hub work with other forks just go all the way and go USD.

[barnett468]

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matty, fortunately, I don't know anyone that would waste a perfectly good V8 Chevy engine by installing it into a late model 6 cylinder vehicle that a car jacker wouldn't take even if it was left in an empty parking lot with the door open and the engine running in downtown Los Angeles, besides, I thought the discussion was about fork tube rigidity, not springs . If the only concern is that the springs might be too soft, you can buy springs for many types of conventional fork tubes . Below is just one source for them.

http://www.racetech.com/

As I stated, big tube conventional forks will NOT bend like a wet noodle on a 450R conversion, especially on a TRAIL BIKE, period, so perhaps the person that stated they would was referring to the forks on an ATC250R and has no experience with the massive 41 mm tubes on The TECATE...The Most Powerful 3 Wheeler In The Universe.

If someone thinks a 450R produces even close to the amount of tq and hp an XR750R or GPZ900R does, they have either never ridden those two bikes or they simply have a VERY good running 450R.

I also see nothing in the quote from Evel where he says his 38 mm forks bent like a wet noodle on his 300 lb bike after jumping to a World Record [but perhaps I simply missed it], nor have I ever seen his forks bend upon landing after one of his jumps unless he crashed and wadded it up . In fact, below is a video of him jumping 14 Greyhound buses and you can see what appears to me to be his his forks compressing then rebounding at the bottom of the ramp which doesn't suggest to me that they bent like a wet noodle, but perhaps I need glasses and/or a bigger computer screen.

PS - I have also never seen the term "off physics of leverage" in any engineering or physics books but perhaps mine are outdated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t44XC8UiQS8


Here's the same model with the same forks doing 130 mph down the straight before they pitch it sideways for the turn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmYdE_4CRDk
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[loganm]

Why are you even comparing street bikes to off road bikes? That's not anywhere close to the same thing. 41mm tubes are not massive by any stretch of the imagination.

It is basic physics. You want the strongest part of the fork at the point where it will have the most leverage acting on it, and the weakest part at the outer end, with the least amount of leverage (at the axle). Stop trying to defend your outdated tech, it's a losing battle. There's a reason why every modern motocross bike that is competitive has USD forks, they're better.

[Mosh]

Barnett... Have you rode a modern day 450 trike conversion with or without conventional forks?

Do you have close relationships with the builders of these modern day comversions and had extensive tech conversations with the design process of them?

Have you been at a three wheeler race and raced against them raced them or seen them in action?

Or do you still know everything?

[barnett468]

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matty, it appears there are also others here that don't share the same OPINIONS that are shared by some and don't have the same propensity to "Rush to judgement." or select just one person out of several others whom share the same general opinion in a feeble attempt to discredit them.

With all their bloviating and pontificating, they are making claims without ever having ridden a 450 conversion with a decent set of conventional forks like the 41 mm ones the 1986 TECATE has.

Also, they seem to be selectively ignoring at least some of the comments below, and all of the ones made about forks were made by knowledgeable and reputable members.

I mostly trail ride and switch between my 250r and my raptor. Basically, are the 450s decent trail riding machines or should I spend my money else where?

You can save money and just use OEM stuff like a 250R front end at 1st. You do not need inverted forks if your gonna be bashing trees in the woods at 15mph.

My first 450 had traditional 250R forks on the front - I didn't mind. Let me tell you two advantages of conventional forks on a 450. #1 You can lower the front end a ton without shortening the forks. #2 they are way lighter!

There are lots of really really good conventional forks. Some of them are very lightweight.

So if I had a 450, I would certainly run inverts but that's just for me, not EVERYONE else.

Nobody said we had to choose from atc forks. There are a LOT of good conventional forks out there.

It seems to me that the 2 conventional fork detractors kinda missed or ignored this also....oops.

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Also, if it were me, I too would go with the killer forks if the finances allowed,

Here's the qualifications for one of them which I guess is better than not having ever ridden a 3 wheeler at all....maybe.

I haven't ridden a 3 wheeler since my dad sold our atc 90 we had as a kid,

.................................................. ............ THE GREAT FORK DEBATE

.................................................. ..

[loganm]

One less than ideal landing and I would crumple your 30 year old tax write off tecate forks /thread

[KASEY]

I built my 450 and several others for the FUN OF IT,,,, I am old and fat ,,,and ride like an old lady now so the 450 lets me be lazy and still have FUN ,,,,, the longer travel soak up the bumps so I can ride for a little while now without getting all beat up,,, I left my forks full length and stretched it out for a better fit in the dunes where I live,,,