How many Pistons do I have to ruin

[loganm]

Counting myself, that's three people who've told you to start at stock jetting. Is your complex algorithm showing you a common denominator here?

It's a 30 year old mis-match basket case, with a pod filter, no silencer, and ghetto port job (seriously (not done by me)). Even if stock jetting weren't a myth I would think twice about considering it. Actually, for a $130 complete eBay top end, with no broken fins, and a decent port match job (not the worst I've seen) It's not a bad deal. Look at what the asking price on most cylinders on eBay, I got that plus the top end, exhaust manifold, reed cage assy. etc.

Got any pics of the bore?

You said it was scored so I was wondering how bad. Was it damaged before you put the newest piston in?

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That is a picture of it after I seized it the first time, with this piston in it. Removed the aluminum with acid before I put it back together. Before I put this piston in it looked very good, almost new. Very light visual scoring, they just honed it after I chewed up the first piston.

@mosh: All dowels are where they should be. With the piston on it has some room to move left and right on the wrist pin, I don't imagine that being a problem. The crank is centered as far as I can tell. Thankfully they're matching cases and not a mis-match set.

Edit: onformula told me the stock main is #152. The manual is telling me #158. Google is telling me it is all sorts of different #s. The 83-4 had a different carb and not the same jetting specs. But judging with how it was currently running, I'd say 145 main would do me good at 65F+. Colder than that and I should probably go back to the #152 for good measure. It doesn't say anything about the needle XXX, just the clip position.

[Scootertrash]

Got any pics of the bore?

You said it was scored so I was wondering how bad. Was it damaged before you put the newest piston in?

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He clamped a cordless drill in a vise and put a flapwheel in it at 1725 rpm according to a complex alorithm. Should be good to go.

[loganm]

He clamped a cordless drill in a vise and put a flapwheel in it at 1725 rpm according to a complex alorithm. Should be good to go.

That would have to be a corded drill. Most cordless ones won't spin that fast...

[83ATC185]

To the OP, The best thing to do is buy a shop manual and a box of Ziploc bags and a sharpie, tear it completely down and rebuild it per the manual. I can't imagine tearing a "rebuilt" engine down time after time, ending in failure and not being willing to read a manual and take advice. That to me is more frustration than taking the time to do it right once. After the second try I'd be asking myself some questions and trying to figure out where I went wrong, which it seems like you might finally be doing to some extent.

Yeah these guys can be rough on a new guy that's to be expected but the beauty in this forum is the years and years of threads available for people such as yourself, not to mention the money a lot of these guys have spent in innovation and development of trike parts. For something that 90% of the population doesn't care about, there is an amazing amount of knowledge here. Do a little digging and see for yourself. You're surely not the first or the last to have a problem like this. You're new to all this, we get it but from what I see if you're not willing to use your brain and willing to learn you have no business here...learn the basics, get a stock one running and riding how it should and if you don't think the satisfaction of riding matches the work you put in, this may not be your hobby.

I have no 2 stroke experience. Rode one once.

[82 250r]

I have had this same motor and PE carb for 31 years.
This small PE carb will only work with stock jetting. Period. done & done. Period.
Over 31 years of jetting, & more jetting, i always come back to stock jetting because of overheating. It just does not respond to jetting without damage. RUN THE STOCK JETTING WITH THIS CARB AND NOTHING ELSE!!

If it were my machine, i would bore to the next size up, and get a new piston that fits that bore size, and make sure the carb has stock jetting. Your current piston & rings are damaged beyond repair.

Get a cast Honda OEM piston, if possible, from EBAY.

Follow the correct break-in procedure and warm up your machine BEFORE you ride it hard.

If you want to improve performance, get an 83-84 carb. There is a reason Honda changed the carb design in 83-84.

BTW...Running a 2 stroke without a silencer is stupid...it WILL overheat. Just sayin...
I'm not trying to be a dick, just sharing my experience.

Hope this helps
Marc

[Scootertrash]

That would have to be a corded drill. Most cordless ones won't spin that fast...

yea, emphasis on MOST

[Scootertrash]

You're wasting your breath 82..........

[loganm]

I have had this same motor and PE carb for 31 years.
This small PE carb will only work with stock jetting. Period. done & done. Period.
Over 31 years of jetting, & more jetting, i always come back to stock jetting because of overheating. It just does not respond to jetting without damage. RUN THE STOCK JETTING WITH THIS CARB AND NOTHING ELSE!!

If it were my machine, i would bore to the next size up, and get a new piston that fits that bore size, and make sure the carb has stock jetting. Your current piston & rings are damaged beyond repair.

Get a cast Honda OEM piston, if possible, from EBAY.

Follow the correct break-in procedure and warm up your machine BEFORE you ride it hard.

If you want to improve performance, get an 83-84 carb. There is a reason Honda changed the carb design in 83-84.

BTW...Running a 2 stroke without a silencer is stupid...it WILL overheat. Just sayin...
I'm not trying to be a dick, just sharing my experience.

Hope this helps
Marc

Wouldn't an 85-6 carb be better? I'm just trying to get the damn thing to run with this carb. As it is with the old needle I think it was pulling it almost all the way out of the hole, part of why I was running so rich with the 145 main. I learned to let it warm up the hard way, cold seizing a fresh piston. Do you by chance know the lettering on the stock needle? The manual says nothing, just clip position.

It will get a silencer. Because it's loud. I like how it sounds but I also like to think sometimes without stopping and shutting my machine off.

To the OP, The best thing to do is buy a shop manual and a box of Ziploc bags and a sharpie, tear it completely down and rebuild it per the manual. I can't imagine tearing a "rebuilt" engine down time after time, ending in failure and not being willing to read a manual and take advice. That to me is more frustration than taking the time to do it right once. After the second try I'd be asking myself some questions and trying to figure out where I went wrong, which it seems like you might finally be doing to some extent.

There's a lot of stuff the manual just doesn't cover. I know because I read through it multiple times trying to find some information (don't remember what lol) I solved most if not all of my problems with the bottom end before I came here. Most of it was out of negligence and not double checking to make sure all the gears and thrust washers were/are on right(do this). As a result of this I can now name where most of the gears go on the shaft.

yea, emphasis on MOST

If you know of one that does spin that fast, please share. I need it to run a ball hone on my cylinder

[82 250r]

I have never ran an 85-86 carb but they are taller so you might run into fitment issues. Also 85 is different than 86.

I am 500 miles away from my machine at the moment so i cant give you the correct needle or pilot jet.

Main Jet= 158
Pilot= ?
Needle= 3rd slot from top
Screw= 1 3/8 open counterclockwise
Float Level= 18.5mm

Remember, all this means nothing if you have an air leak...Always do a pressure check as others have noted.

[Scootertrash]

If you know of one that does spin that fast, please share. I need it to run a ball hone on my cylinder

Ask and ye shall receive:



Be careful tho, it's a 2 stroke. you wouldn't want to seize it up and create another project for yourself.

[loganm]

So, bore it out for the next size piston (.0030), have the machine shop bore and hone it for the piston, have them square the cylinder bore up with the base (I think they did this last time, I told them to check for flatness, looks like they took some from one side), go back to the stock main (#152 on the 82 models).

Reassemble top end, pressure test, strict break in, retorque head and base.

Anything I'm missing? I may go through the bottom end again to make sure everything is working correctly. I have everything in the right place this time, I made sure of that.

[82 250r]

Stock pilot jet
Stock needle
Stock needle position
Stock float level

Run it with a silencer or it will be lean & hot.

Don't buy a piston until the machinist has seen & measured your cylinder. Only he can tell you what size to get.

[Billy Golightly]

...have them square the cylinder bore up with the base (I think they did this last time, I told them to check for flatness, looks like they took some from one side)....

Do....what?

[Dirtcrasher]

I sure missed that one; NO SILENCER? They run ridiculously HOT!! Thru this whole blowing up time span of doom and gloom, you never ran a silencer??

If you don't mind spending money, get a new carburetor.

No leak test after this?? No checking of the bore and piston at any machine or motor shop yet??

Your crank will be toast soon. If you supersize any of your pictures, there are pieces of aluminum everywhere, and they keep happening.

Dents where the wrist pin got either installed or removed incorrectly (note the dings or peening) on the piston wrist pin hole appear to be from a .

Do you know how to make a safe wrist pin remover very easy??

See how hot that wrist pin got. Scratches all over everything.

A 4 stroke would be much more difficult than this.

SIMPLE

1) Put the damn silencer on!!
2) Have the bore and piston checked for clearances.
3) Put it together lightly coating the piston with 2 stroke oil.
4) Leak test it AGAIN, even if you already did it once.
5) Brand new carburetor with stock jets. My Keihin for my 2 stroke Hondaster brand new one was 188$.

[loganm]

Do....what?

It was in a post a while back. Over time the base can become warped/ed/ghetto-machinedwithafile to the point where the bore is actually a few degrees off from perpendicular of the crank centerline... or something.

I sure missed that one; NO SILENCER? They run ridiculously HOT!! Thru this whole blowing up time span of doom and gloom, you never ran a silencer??

If you don't mind spending money, get a new carburetor.

No leak test after this?? No checking of the bore and piston at any machine or motor shop yet??

Your crank will be toast soon. If you supersize any of your pictures, there are pieces of aluminum everywhere, and they keep happening.

Dents where the wrist pin got either installed or removed incorrectly (note the dings or peening) on the piston wrist pin hole appear to be from a .

Do you know how to make a safe wrist pin remover very easy??

See how hot that wrist pin got. Scratches all over everything.

A 4 stroke would be much more difficult than this.

SIMPLE

1) Put the damn silencer on!!
2) Have the bore and piston checked for clearances.
3) Put it together lightly coating the piston with 2 stroke oil.
4) Leak test it AGAIN, even if you already did it once.
5) Brand new carburetor with stock jets. My Keihin for my 2 stroke Hondaster brand new one was 188$.

The wrist pin got installed correctly. Uninstalled... that was something else. No, I didn't just wack away at it with a punch and side loading the piss out of the rod bearing. But I did have to get creative. The top of the rod didn't have any blueing on it, I don't think it got too hot. The original one had a bit of blueing at the top of it. The big end bearing was toast anyways. I don't think the carburetor is an issue. It's still in pretty good condition. And it's a dead simple 2-stroke carb. Compared to what a modern 250F has it is a walk in the park. (Seriously, just installing one is a nightmare.)