Hydrogen Embrittlement

[El Camexican]

Do any of you guys know anything about this? I sent my Tri-Z axle out for chrome plating and had a moment of clarity after the fact and decided to check if the properties of the steel might change.

Turns out there this thing called hydrogen embrittlement that happens during the chroming process. I called Durablue and asked if their axles could be chromed and the guy said "Sure!" but didn't know if there was a heat treating process that followed the chroming.

Have any of you chromed an axle, or heard of this issue? Maybe it only applies to hard chroming, but I can't seem to Google that factoid.

[jeswinehart]

My only experience is nickel chrome. If I understood the process correctly all that was needed for show chrome was alot of manors polishing (exspensive) ,,,, nickel chromed was fine with me on all my tecate parts including axle.
I don't think there was much heat ,,, involved,,,, just all chemical process.

[ironchop]

I've heard of it but not related to chrome plating.

I would think that if chrome plating is safe for motorcycle forks, it should be fine on a sprung ATV axle. How high you gonna jump it? Lol

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[El Camexican]

I've heard of it but not related to chrome plating.

I would think that if chrome plating is safe for motorcycle forks, it should be fine on a sprung ATV axle. How high you gonna jump it? Lol

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I may work up the nerve to drive it off the back of the trailer one day. Besides, it's a Tri-Z, the foot pegs will brake off before the axle snaps.

From what I've read it looks like the process can be reversed if the part is heat treated within 24 hours. I just called a place in CA and asked if they do ATV axles and if this is an issue. They said yes they do axles and no there is no problem if the process is done correctly. The problem is when the parts are left in the tanks too long. If the process is done correctly there are no worries.

As far as forks and more importantly hydraulic shafts are concerned I suspect they get the post finish heat treatment regardless. Makes sense now why the NHRA won't allow chrome framed bikes to pass tech.

http://www.finishing.com/1600-1799/1747.shtml

[ironchop]

.

As far as forks and more importantly hydraulic shafts are concerned I suspect they get the post finish heat treatment regardless. Makes sense now why the NHRA won't allow chrome framed bikes to pass tech.

http://www.finishing.com/1600-1799/1747.shtml

Good point. I didn't know about the NHRA frame rule for chrome frames.

I wonder if all those aftermarket springer front ends for custom bikes got post-plating heat treating. I know that I built two from scratch and one AEE unit I stripped and had rechromed including the springs. Makes me nervous now.



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[El Camexican]

Chrome shops are almost non existent in Ca. EPA took care of that we just hop the border for day of fun in T.J. !

The shop I'm using is full of OEM Harley parts. All of them bound for the US market.

No worries though, Trump will shut those EPA arseholes down his first day on the job and you'll be surrounded by chrome sho... awe cr*p!!! He's kicking the wets out too! There won't be anyone to work in the shops.

[El Camexican]

Good point. I didn't know about the NHRA frame rule for chrome frames.

I wonder if all those aftermarket springer front ends for custom bikes got post-plating heat treating. I know that I built two from scratch and one AEE unit I stripped and had rechromed including the springs. Makes me nervous now.

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Yea, they mention springs in the articles, but this shop says they do them all the time as well as HD brake disks, axles etc.

[ironchop]

So it's entirely dependent on how long the parts are under current right?

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[Jwheeler]

I get a lot of ATC parts chromed here in the San Diego area. I have never had a problem at all with over heated or the finished of the items. I have had several rear axles done with no problems. All the small shops have been closed around here due to the EPA .The bling is good !

[El Camexican]

So it's entirely dependent on how long the parts are under current right?

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Well that's one person on the phone saying that. Don't take my work for it. Where's Barnett?

Ol Duece might know something about this. An article I read mentioned suspension components being an issue.

[wonderboy]

I don't know if you found this link yet, but here is a Wiki link on the subject:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement

A couple of interesting points:
- Steel with an ultimate tensile strength of less than 1000 MPa (~145,000 psi) or hardness of less than 30 HRC is not generally considered susceptible to hydrogen embrittlement. (I have no idea where our axles are with respect to the tensile strength or hardness...)
- Hydrogen embrittlement can occur during various manufacturing operations ... including electroplating (which it sounds like you already knew...)

[RUNMEDOWN]

I thought it was a cool band name.

[El Camexican]

I thought it was a cool band name.

Bingo! Great name for a band of old dudes!

[El Camexican]

I have no idea where our axles are with respect to the tensile strength or hardness

Me neither, but 145,000ksi is HARD! I've worked with some bar that was just north of 100,000ksi and it rang like a bell when you tapped on it. I don't think our axles are that hard. If they were they would break and not bend.

I recall reading about how stock car axles break if you use them with a spool because they are very hard, whereas aftermarket race axles are made to twist over time and can be checked with reference points at each end. (I wonder if you can flip them around and untwist them?). I aslo recall reading that aftermarket axles are harder on the outside than in the center to allow this flex.

Now would they do all this for a stock ATV? I doubt it. Odds are they would use a cheaper low grade steel with a larger diameter rather than spend the budget on a lighter thinner high strength bar.

Regardless, I pick up the precious tomorrow evening

[Daddio]

Me neither, but 145,000ksi is HARD! I've worked with some bar that was just north of 100,000ksi and it rang like a bell when you tapped on it. I don't think our axles are that hard. If they were they would break and not bend.

I recall reading about how stock car axles break if you use them with a spool because they are very hard, whereas aftermarket race axles are made to twist over time and can be checked with reference points at each end. (I wonder if you can flip them around and untwist them?). I aslo recall reading that aftermarket axles are harder on the outside than in the center to allow this flex.



Now would they do all this for a stock ATV? I doubt it. Odds are they would use a cheaper low grade steel with a larger diameter rather than spend the budget on a lighter thinner high strength bar.

Regardless, I pick up the precious tomorrow evening

I know that, back in the day, guys used to paint stripes down the length of axles in drag cars to check for twist. Not sure if untwisting would be a good idea or not. The more you cold work steel the more brittle it becomes.