Bolt on esr 330 kit question

[HondaRidr]

I am talking to a guy that has a bolt on esr 330 cylinder for sale. He said that he had it on a 85 250r so I thought I was good (I have an 86 250r) but I checked out esr's website and it says that it only works with long rod motors. So either this guy had a long rod or is full of it? I have been searching and I can't seem to find a straight answer so I'm posting it up. Is there any way I can run the bolt on 330 kit on a short rod crank?

[RIDE-RED 250r]

That's funny...because ESR big bore kits simply run a spacer for long rods and no spacer for short rod.. I'm not sure why the bolt-on kit would be any different.

Stroker cranks are another story though... port timing has to be set up specifically for stroke.

What does ESR website say about this?? That's the first place I would look for info.

[HondaRidr]

I looked on the ESR site already. This is what it says
THIS BOLT ON KIT IS FOR LONG ROD CRANKS, 1987-1989 ENGINES. FOR THE RIDER THAT DOES NOT WONT TO TAKE THE BOTTOM END APART ( WITH A BIG POWER INCREASE )
THIS KIT WILL WORK WITH STOCK REED BLOCK, EXHAUST FLANGE, AND CARB.

NOTE (FOR LONG ROD CRANKS WITH STOCK STROKE USE .190 CYLINDER SPACER PLATE)

But for some reason I just can't get the whole long rod vs short rod and spacer plate thing figured out (I'm a visual learner so its hard to grasp without seeing it). But it seems to me that if you need a spacer plate to run it with a long rod, couldn't you run it on a short rod with no spacer?

[yaegerb]

If you have to use a long rod or spacer then no you can't use it because the ports will be too high when you bolt it on. The cylinder maps on that unit must be tall for the long rod/stroker combo.

Unless you are jonesing for a big bore, why don't you send your cylinder out to get a play port job.

[HondaRidr]

My trike has a esr 310pv (non ported) that was on it when I got the bike. I know how much difference a port makes but if this deal works out, I will get the 330 for a very reasonable price. I was looking into how difficult it would be to run it. I might just keep it on the shelf for a while.

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[The_Steve_Man]

The cylinder sleeve does not extend into the cases on that cylinder. Maybe that is why it needs to be used with the long rod and spacer so the piston skirt has more sleeve in the cylinder.

[BOB MARLIN]

I get what your saying about the spacer plate, it does seem that if you had a short rod you wouldn't need the spacer. And if you had a long rod you would. I guess the bottom line is that they are intended for use on the quads, not the atc. As far as I know all the engines after 86 were long rods and all quads of corse because there was no atc after that.

That being said, I have the esr 330 in my atc with a long rod. It makes gobs of power, way more than a stocker, and actually has good torque too. It just runs very hot !. Mine is sitting in the barn right now because it seized up on the last trip and i'm still pissed about it.
If I were to do it again I would use a stock cylinder with a good port job and put the other $2000 back in my pocket.

[The_Steve_Man]

Here is a couple screen shots of a conversation I had with Bubba Ramsey about a 310 vs a 330 or bigger. I was trying to decide on a race motor and a buddy that is 265 lbs wondering what motor to go with.

HondaRidr, sounds like a good deal on the 330.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I looked on the ESR site already. This is what it says
THIS BOLT ON KIT IS FOR LONG ROD CRANKS, 1987-1989 ENGINES. FOR THE RIDER THAT DOES NOT WONT TO TAKE THE BOTTOM END APART ( WITH A BIG POWER INCREASE )
THIS KIT WILL WORK WITH STOCK REED BLOCK, EXHAUST FLANGE, AND CARB.

NOTE (FOR LONG ROD CRANKS WITH STOCK STROKE USE .190 CYLINDER SPACER PLATE)




But for some reason I just can't get the whole long rod vs short rod and spacer plate thing figured out (I'm a visual learner so its hard to grasp without seeing it). But it seems to me that if you need a spacer plate to run it with a long rod, couldn't you run it on a short rod with no spacer?

Not discounting your info... But it makes no sense to me that you cannot use the bolt on 330 kit on a short rod bottom end if you leave out the spacer... So long as it is not set up for a stroker crank, port timing is the same be it short or long rod. The spacer used for the non-bolt-on big bores is .190 as well, and to run those cylinders on a short rod all you do is delete the spacer. Unless TheSteveMan is onto something about the cylinder skirt question, I really don't see how this won't work.

FTR: I am running an ESR 350 big bore cylinder on my '85 with absolutely no issues.

Didn't Honda put a spacer in from the factory when they went to the long rod setup??

[The_Steve_Man]

The long rod motors used different Pistons with a higher pin location. When you use a a 330 or bigger non bolt on, the cases have to be machined for the cylinder sleeve to go into the cases.

[HondaRidr]

The cylinder sleeve does not extend into the cases on that cylinder. Maybe that is why it needs to be used with the long rod and spacer so the piston skirt has more sleeve in the cylinder.

But a spacer plate would raise the sleeve farther away from the crank and give less support to the piston at bdc right? I believe the 330 bolt on kits have a thinner sleeve so that it fits without machine work but only has a couple overbores.

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[kiser]

A friend of mine has a ESR 330 bolt on kit on a quad. He told me the difference between them is the bolt on kit don't have a skirt on the the cylinder so it can be bolted on without machining the cases. The skirt of the piston comes out of the cylinder with this kit. The 330 kit that requires machining has a cylinder skirt witch keeps the piston in the cylinder more. I'm guessing they want you to run a long rod with the bolt on kit so your piston stays farther up in the cylinder to increase the life of the motor. I personally think the kit that requires machining would be better but a lot of people have ran the bolt on kit without trouble so I guess it's up to you what you want to run.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

The long rod motors used different Pistons with a higher pin location. When you use a a 330 or bigger non bolt on, the cases have to be machined for the cylinder sleeve to go into the cases.

OK, I thought I remembered something about the piston pin location being moved on the long rod engines but I wasn't 100% so I didn't want to say.

It's starting to make sense now about the piston skirt protrusion being the likely reason it is said that the bolt on kit is not compatible with the short rod.

[HondaRidr]

Thanks for the info kiser. I guess I'm still confused because the piston for the long rod has a higher wrist pin height but the piston itself is not higher unless you run the 85-86 piston.

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[The_Steve_Man]

With the pin being higher, it puts the piston at TDC at the same height as a short rod and piston.