200es engine in 200m n frustrated.

[jakeesspoo]

I have had a 200m sitting around forever that I'm getting around to now. When I got it it had a bad 200s engine in it. I had a running 200es I believ engine that I pulled from a part bike. It ran when I pulled it out of bad bike (broke, twisted frame). The 200m is in excellent shape. Good plastics,seat,forks, brakes,rubber. So I put the engine in the 200m and I cannot get any spark. Electric start works, neutral switch works, just turns over no spark. Ohmed out trigger coil (28 ohms) good, checked exciter coil (200 ohms) good. Two wires run down to Cdi plug from ignition switch and on/off switch. It's black and white wire so I cut it to make sure the switches were not bad. Tried a different ignition coil from a good bike and still nothing. Tried a different Cdi box and nothing but I do not know if that was a good Cdi or not as I had it laying around and none of my other bikes have the round plug Cdi.

Coming out of the alternator on this bike is the red/black wire to exciter coil and a green and a yellow wire that both go to lighting coil? None of the manuals show a green wire coming from alternator. I took it apart and the green and yellow wire both go to the armature coils and have the same continuity. This confuses me but I don't think that's my problem. I took the yellow from alternator to yellow wires from wiring harness as shown in diagram and took the green to ground (also tried running the bike without the mystery green wire hooked to anything and still nothing)

I have checked all the wires for cuts or breaks. The only thing I can think left is the unknown condition of the two CDi s that I tried. How would a Cdi just go bad from sitting a couple years? I know for a fact the engine ran when I pulled it out of parts bike. Either way I ordered a new one from flea bay for 10 bucks. Any other thoughts on this. Also tried for spark with neutral switch disconnected. Switch works though as if you put it in gear out of neutral the light goes off and starter will not turn over so it works.

[350for350]

It's probably a 200e instead of an es. The 200es was shaft drive. Maybe you're looking at the wrong manual?

[jakeesspoo]

Yes it would have been a 200e then but either way all the wiring is basically the same. and my electrical system as far as the starter and lights are concerned work fine.

I looked at almost if not all the wiring diagrams in my clymer manual and I didn't see any alternator with a green wire coming from it. Some I think showed two yellow wires and the red/black

[jakeesspoo]

Ok I just found a wiring diagram from a 200s/185 that shows the generator as having a yellow a green and a black/red wire so even going by this I have it wired correctly it appears

[jakeesspoo]

See. Th green wire is not shown in any of the 200m or 200e wiring diagrams. They only show two yello and the black/red but this picture is of the one I have in my bike so where's the green from stator go to???

[ZacH_GrifF]

On the 185s/200s the green wire is just hooked to ground. As far as the no spark, only the red/black wire should affect that. Yellow and green wires only affect the lighting/charging circuit.

[ZacH_GrifF]

Also, sounds like you dont have a factory service manual.

Go here and download a manual for each bike.

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/

[jakeesspoo]

I have the clymer manual that covers the 185 and 200's Ive had it for 20 years. It's hanging together with grease

[ZacH_GrifF]

Yea I saw that, the honda service manuals in the link above have year and model specific wiring diagrams and are just generally helpful with trouble shooting wiring issues.

[YTZ drew]

I've seen a bad plug cap cause a no spark condition. Try taking the cap of the plug wire, and see if you have spark right at the wire strands. Maybe you'll get lucky and it will be a simple $10 fix.

[jakeesspoo]

I already tried the plug cap as I tried it with a good known ignition coil with a plug cap and wire on it

[wonderboy]

Here is what I can tell from the wiring diagrams.

1. From the alternator/stator area, you should only have to worry about the black/red wire. This provides the power to the CDI.

2. The two yellow wires (per the Honda manual) or the Green and Yellow wires (per your engine) should only be for the lighting/charging circuits. They feed the regulator/rectifier. Based on the wiring diagrams, there is not a connection between the regulated DC power and the CDI, so you shouldn't need to worry about it (to just get the engine running).

3. The pulser (ignition trigger) wires are the blue/yellow and green wires. Blue/yellow should connect to the CDI. The green goes to ground.

Check all your grounds. Make sure the engine, frame, and any/all green wires all show low (zero) resistance. Especially make sure that the motor is grounded, since the power source for the CDI only runs the hot lead out, not the ground. It grounds through the engine case to the frame.

What coil is on your machine? Does it have a single wire (black/yellow)? This style grounds through the mounting flanges. Again, make sure this is clean and that you have good continuity from the metal tab on the flange to the frame to the engine and to any green wire in the harness. This is typically where the harness ground eyelet is connected. Make sure it is.

If you have the two terminal coil, then the harness ground eyelet connects somewhere else on the machine and you have a dedicated ground wire connecting to the coil. Again, check your grounds.

Last, the kill switch turns off the machine by grounding out the black/white (85) or black (84) wire from the CDI. In other words, leaving this disconnected will make sure that the CDI will fire the plug.

[jakeesspoo]

Got a new Cdi and I have spark now. Strangely I only have spark though with the pull starter. The electric start won't do a thing. It has a fully charged battery and seems to have the same rpms as my other electric starts but nothing. Pull the rope and spark. When I ohmed out the exciter coil I had around 200 ohms. My Honda manual called for somewhere between 100-400. I'm wondering if I found a exciter at the 400 ohm range if my spark would become visible? Also can I find just the exciter for this model? I ordered one for a 185 last month and just soldered it in. But this is a different coil now. It's the stator with the coil built around it in a circle

[wonderboy]

Hey Jake,

I was searching through the Honda service manuals and although most seemed to use a 4 wire regulator, the 85 200M diagram shows a 5 wire like you have.

Here is the diagram:

Hopefully, you can get this all figured out.

[wonderboy]

I looked up another wiring diagram and found that the 200S used a lighting coil with one yellow and one green wire just like you have coming out of your motor. So even though you have a 200E motor, it must have a 200S lighting coil in there.

On the 200S, there is no regulator so the green wire (on that machine) in fact does go to ground. However, on your machine you need to hook up the lighting coil the way the 200M wiring diagram shows (as if both wires were yellow). So, connect your yellow coil wire to one of the yellow harness leads, and connect your green coil wire to the other yellow. This "should" work... Ignore my post earlier saying to connect any green wire to ground. If this was a 200S, that would have been correct, but NOT on this 200M.