What happens in Vegas,,,,

[redsox]

Very interesting,,,, so let me tell you a little story about the peoples republic of Massachusetts. Licenses to carry come in Class A and Class B. (There are other small variations but these are the most common) They are issued by the Chief of Police of the individuals city or town. Good system right? Well, most of the time it is. Until politicians like Marty Walsh and Joe Curtatone (sanctuary city guys) with deep seated political agendas tell their chiefs that if they'd like to remain chief then they should stop issuing Licenses. In many cases, people just can't get an LTC. Other chiefs make it a bit difficult. When I first got my LTC I lived in Saugus MA, which was a nice blue collar town outside of the city. I went on my 18th birthday and I got "the packet" and had to fill everything out and 3 letters of reference, yada, yada, yada. I then bring the packet back and hand it to "The licensing officer" who was designated by the chief. I was told to "check back in 6 weeks." 6 weeks later, I go in and i'm told that the Chief has designated a NEW "licensing officer" and it will be another 6 weeks for the review. 6 weeks later, pissed, I go in and after an interview, I got it. I think its a tactic used to generally reduce licenses. Its a pain in the arse. So , my point is, there is no perfect solution, but it does not mean we shouldn't try.

[Shep1970]

Redsox i went through basically the same (here in mass) 19yrs old i had to talk to chief about getting a FID card (just to purchase or own) took a few weeks but recieved it. Basically had to pry it from his hands though, he did ask if i would take a safety course within the year. I went and picked up a couple of pea-shooters/ although they’ve been locked in a safe for i’d say 25yrs its nice to know they are there. Just recently i told the wife about this, she wants to go to a gun range when it gets warmer. I guess she’s a keeper

Shep

[ironchop]

Redsox i went through basically the same (here in mass) 19yrs old i had to talk to chief about getting a FID card (just to purchase or own) took a few weeks but recieved it. Basically had to pry it from his hands though, he did ask if i would take a safety course within the year. I went and picked up a couple of pea-shooters/ although they’ve been locked in a safe for i’d say 25yrs its nice to know they are there. Just recently i told the wife about this, she wants to go to a gun range when it gets warmer. I guess she’s a keeper

Shep

I'm a fan of requiring a safety course. Not just focused on operating a gun safely, but also proper marksmanship so you don't kill a bystander defending yourself, and also when you can legally defend yourself with a firearm.

I'm all for 2A rights but I don't think asking for a safety course is too much. It won't solve mass shootings at all but it may keep people from deadly accidents. I had friends with CCWs whom I would not shoot at range with because they were unsafe morons and I was afraid they would hurt someone on accident or hurt the wrong person on purpose.

Thing is, my middle school required everyone, EVERYONE to take the Indiana Hunter Education and Safety course as part of our health class in 7th grade. It was six weeks and taught by a INDNR officer who came to the school and also our health/gym teacher. At the end, we had to do live fire drills and be tested on handling a loaded .22 rifle and a bow in order to pass the class....Life in 1983!

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[Scootertrash]

I would be in favor of more vigorous enforcement of illegal weapons ownership and illegal acts committed with weapons as well as much more severe penalties for those types of violations.

Punishment should be severe enough to discourage crime in general, let alone if a firearm or any weapon for that matter, is used.

Our county Sheriff issues carry permits. I go in, fill out the form, provide proof of successful completion of a Conceal Carry class, and within 10 days I have my permit which doubles as my permit to purchase a handgun.

[redsox]

These days, most dirty guns are bought clean. When you guys say, "gangbangers aren't following the law" you're right. But have you ever stopped to think where "gangbangers" are getting the guns? I only ask because its relative to punishment. Its difficult to catch a straw purchaser in the act, and, when caught, it becomes a "punishment for a crime about to be committed" situation. So, often-drug-addicted but relatively non-criminal addicts would bear the brunt of the "severe" punishment. i'm not opposed to this personally, but I assure you, there is little appetite for mandatory sentences when judges and lawyers kids are involved.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Yes, handgun laws vary the most from state to state. Here in NY, one must be 21 years old and have a certificate of completion of the NRA basic handgun safety course. Without that certificate, you cannot even pick up a pistol permit application from the pistol licensing officer. The pistol permits are handled by each individual county pistol licensing officer and the county judge is the one who issues, denies, and revokes pistol licenses. Being that NY is not a "must issue" state, issuance is at the sole discretion of the judge. Some judges are very good, and some suck and issue zero licenses unless the applicant is Law Enforcement or politically connected somehow.

Once we fill out all of our forms we make an appointment with the county sheriffs office to get fingerprinted and hand in the application packet. At this time you also hand over a check for $136.50 to pay for the fingerprinting and full background check. Then you wait.... A few months later you will get your letter of approval (if you get approved) at which time you are instructed to go and purchase a handgun (which is dumb because unless you have your license you are not permitted to even handle a handgun in this state) and then you make an appointment with the pistol license office to have your license issued. Why you ask?? Because in this state, you cannot have a pistol license unless you have a pistol. So, you take your receipt from purchasing that first handgun (which you have not yet taken possession of) with you to the licensing office, they then issue your license and add the pistol you have paid for to you "list". At that point the officer will give you a little green slip that says the dealer or individual you have bought eh pitol from can now turn it over to you. That list I mentioned above?? Well, they know each and every handgun we own. Make, model, type, caliber and serial number. The only thing that changes for you once you have been issued your license and have your first handgun on your list and in your possession is that now when I buy a handgun, I pay for it, take the receipt to the pistol license office (no appointment necessary at this point) and they add it to your list and give you the green slip so you can go back to the gunshop and bring your new handgun home.

Sorry about the long story, but this is what we NYers must go through to purchase a handgun. It's not like you just go get your pistol license and you can now go buy whatever you want, no.. they keep track of everything you own. Handguns are fully registered here in NY, have been for nearly 100 years. I don't agree with how stringent it is for handgun owners here in NY. They place many financial obstacles in the way for someone looking to get their first handgun, requiring someone to pay for a handgun before they will issue the license is the biggest. To me it's always seemed as dumb as not allowing someone to have a drivers license unless they pay for a car first.

Anyway, handguns are kind of a subject all their own as seen by how differently the individual states regulate them. Long gun regs are pretty similar in most states, NY, CA, and a couple other New England states being the exception where they have made the ownership of an AR-15 as originally designed is now illegal..at least here in NY anyway. I believe Mass, Cali, and Conn are similar if not the same as NY in this area. All BS whatever the case..

Dan, I;m not in law enforcement as you are, but my gut tells me that most gangbangers and other career lowlifes are getting their weapons by illegal smuggling in from other countries (mainly south of the border), and weapons that have been stolen from legal owners and sold cheap on the street. I'm sure some are obtained through straw purchasers, but I'm inclined to think that method is not utilized nearly as much as the other two I mentioned previously. These people certainly aren't stealing their full autos from legal owners here in the US. Kind of like the days of prohibition, the tighter you regulate something, the more lucrative the black market for that thing becomes. I don't think firearms are an exception.

[redsox]

Ironically, guns are smuggled OUT of america into mexico, the Caribbean, and south america. Stolen guns are a big source of bad guy guns here, as are illegally sold hand-me-down guns from past generations. But, by far the largest source of illegal guns come from straw purchasers. Shiteheads, often women, usually just starting out in a life of scummery, who still have a clean record, that need drugs and see the money to be made in flipping a gun. So, dumb-dumb rolls into a gun shop in NH, buys 5 Hi-Point 40 cals for $1000, drives ten minutes into Massachusetts with them, and drops them to their dealer for $1000 each (usually paid in heroin) which is then driven ten minutes up into NH, where it is now worth double to triple. Where else can you make $10k in a day?

[ironchop]

Ironically, guns are smuggled OUT of america into mexico, the Caribbean, and south america.

Yeah we heard about Eric Holder's little gun-running operation funded by the DOJ via the taxpayers.

You got the CIA shipping coke into the country to "help the Contras" and the DOJ shipping straw-purchased guns out of the country to "combat illegal arms sales"

Also WHY would I be a cartel Hitman with my straw-purchased $1000 SEMI-AUTO AK47 with legalized nonsense all over it from the back of Eric Holders van when I can get new in crate FULL AUTO AKs sourced from Africa for the equivalent of $75 American dollars according to my international arms dealer aquaintance. It's laughable that billionaire cartels would bother overpaying grossly for underperforming weapons via a convoluted end-around from Americans walking sissy guns across the border. I'm a got darn smuggler, for crying out loud, I can easily smuggle cheap AKs into my continent. It's what I do, right?

The Argentinians are big military select fire weapons manufacturers as well. Why would you buy a semi auto WASR smuggled from Cali with fixed magazines and bullet buttons when you can get more serious hardware from your next door neighbor for much less?

Sorry, but I believe none of any "official claims or stories" anymore regarding where guns actually come from because I've been in arms manufacturing in military contracts for a number of years and I also pay close attention to every time the US LIES about not being nefarious hypocrites in some Congressional hearing only to be caught lying every time. Every. Time.






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[Scootertrash]

Yeah we heard about Eric Holder's little gun-running operation funded by the DOJ via the taxpayers.

You got the CIA shipping coke into the country to "help the Contras" and the DOJ shipping straw-purchased guns out of the country to "combat illegal arms sales"

Also WHY would I be a cartel Hitman with my straw-purchased $1000 SEMI-AUTO AK47 with legalized nonsense all over it from the back of Eric Holders van when I can get new in crate FULL AUTO AKs sourced from Africa for the equivalent of $75 American dollars according to my international arms dealer aquaintance. It's laughable that billionaire cartels would bother overpaying grossly for underperforming weapons via a convoluted end-around from Americans walking sissy guns across the border. I'm a got darn smuggler, for crying out loud, I can easily smuggle cheap AKs into my continent. It's what I do, right?

The Argentinians are big military select fire weapons manufacturers as well. Why would you buy a semi auto WASR smuggled from Cali with fixed magazines and bullet buttons when you can get more serious hardware from your next door neighbor for much less?

Sorry, but I believe none of any "official claims or stories" anymore regarding where guns actually come from because I've been in arms manufacturing in military contracts for a number of years and I also pay close attention to every time the US LIES about not being nefarious hypocrites in some Congressional hearing only to be caught lying every time. Every. Time.

Thank You!

I don't understand how some can be so gullible as to believe that criminals would actually purchase, or try to, firearms at retail, let alone cartel members.

[ironchop]

Thank You!

I don't understand how some can be so gullible as to believe that criminals would actually purchase, or try to, firearms at retail, let alone cartel members.

There are illegal arms factories popping up in the ex Soviet sattelite states that are manufacturing select fire subguns. They have logos engraved and even serial numbers but when Interpol tried to trace them, nobody can figure out where they came from. The theory is somewhere in the Balkans but they can't prove it. The weapons are brand new, illegally manufactured, have only been found on terrorists and criminals, and have zero paper trail. So Scotland Yard, etc has now discovered that the illegal arms trade has now evolved from trying to steal/buy weapons to simply setting up your own machine shop and manufacture your own. This is, they estimate, 10 times cheaper than the traditional methods.

So now all you need is a small machine shop and your set.....

https://youtu.be/pq1TXEE_QK4

Always a market somewhere

https://youtu.be/FinRqCocwGE

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[redsox]

Because they're not paying cash, amigo. Get it? They are paying with what they have, which is the dope, and getting what we have, the guns. You think cartel members are few and far between? Think again. Its here, and its organized, and its well armed. Small arms are getting shipped to mexico and the dominican republic multiple times every day, in small numbers. Mailed and shipped freight, and theres nothing or no one to stop it. I don't know the availability of arms in mexico relative to the US, but I do know that the demand exhausts the supply down there, creating a market. Same thing with dope up here.

Editors note; i couldn't care less about it. What happens in mexico is not really my business or concern.

[ironchop]

On those mystery illegal subguns...

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...seized-europe/

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[ironchop]

Because they're not paying cash, amigo. Get it? They are paying with what they have, which is the dope, and getting what we have, the guns. You think cartel members are few and far between? Think again. Its here, and its organized, and its well armed. Small arms are getting shipped to mexico and the dominican republic multiple times every day, in small numbers. Mailed and shipped freight, and theres nothing or no one to stop it. I don't know the availability of arms in mexico relative to the US, but I do know that the demand exhausts the supply down there, creating a market. Same thing with dope up here.

Editors note; i couldn't care less about it. What happens in mexico is not really my business or concern.

I never said Cartels aren't in the US and organized. I'm not sure where you read that... You sound mad that you got disagreed with but whatever.

Let's accept your "they pay in dope amigo" argument and examine that....

So your saying that a Cartel dude would rather pay the equivalent to $1000 in dope for a product they can pay $100 in dope for? Huh? Africans don't like dope?

Yeah your gonna need more than that to change my mind. Calm down princess.



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[redsox]

Not mad in the least. I'm having a good few days and i'm pretty happy. And i'm generally very calm. I don't see how that came off as otherwise. ????? I'll ignore the "princess" shot and move on. Africans? I'm not following your logic. As far as "$1000 in dope" its all very reactive to where the dope is and who has it. Drug trafficking economics is a very elaborate and confusing field. In reality, it all comes back down to supply and demand as well as the price of risk. There is no shortage of money in the game and there is always a demand for guns. Now, I don't know a lot about the gang culture that doesn't pertain to drugs. I cannot wrap my head around why people shoot each other over shoes and hats. What I do know is the relationship between guns and drugs. This is far afield from the discussion of scooter and his violated rights, but i'm happy to continue this way. Also, what am I changing your mind from? I'm lost.

I never said Cartels aren't in the US and organized. I'm not sure where you read that... You sound mad that you got disagreed with but whatever.

Let's accept your "they pay in dope amigo" argument and examine that....

So your saying that a Cartel dude would rather pay the equivalent to $1000 in dope for a product they can pay $100 in dope for? Huh? Africans don't like dope?

Yeah your gonna need more than that to change my mind. Calm down princess.



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[fabiodriven]

Don't get all revved up now Chop!