Xt550 trike conversion build thread

[BOB MARLIN]

Trail is leverage. More trail means more leverage the ground has against the handle bars as it is trying to keep the front wheel strait, giving it a heavy feel. Less trail moves that leverage back to the handle bars. Too little trail will make the bike /Trike unstable at higher speeds and feel "twitchy" because the ground is no longer helping to keep the wheel strait. You need to find the sweet spot.
In your setup, it looks easy to try the axle flip first, since it appears you all ready have a pretty steep angle to your swing arm.

[fabiodriven]

Trail is leverage. More trail means more leverage the ground has against the handle bars as it is trying to keep the front wheel strait, giving it a heavy feel. Less trail moves that leverage back to the handle bars. Too little trail will make the bike /Trike unstable at higher speeds and feel "twitchy" because the ground is no longer helping to keep the wheel strait. You need to find the sweet spot.
In your setup, it looks easy to try the axle flip first, since it appears you all ready have a pretty steep angle to your swing arm.

You've got it completely backwards Bob.

Axle leading or axle trailing is irrelevant. Whether the rake is built into the steering neck, the triples, or the position of the entire frame itself, the rake is the upright line which the front forks follow as they sweep left and right. The difference between leading axle and trailing axle is built into the rake in order to accommodate the decision to make the axle either leading or trailing, not the other way around. If you're using your axle position to alter your rake, you're doing something wrong. Decide which axle position you'd like and then rake it accordingly.

[fabiodriven]

My XR650L conversion still has the bike rake, which is too much rake and not enough trail, and it handles like it has too much rake. I've known it for years and I know very well what too much rake looks and feels like. Go ahead and swap the axle around if you want to, but it's going to make the steering even more heavy.

[plevib]

OK well the results are in and Bob and red rider are right! Leading axle and the steering is nice and light! I haven't ridden it more than up and down my alley so I can't say how it is at high speed, but it's definitely more comfortable now. I don't really firmly grasp why it made it lighter, but it did and I'm stoked!

Thanks for the help guys!

Gonna button up a couple odds and ends. This weekend she gets a real life test. Can't wait!!!

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[fabiodriven]

Seems crazy to me but I'm glad it's better!

[BOB MARLIN]

Rake is a funny thing. Even the "rake" that's built into a 250r's triples isn't really rake. Rake is in the neck of the frame, not the forks. The so called "Rake" in the 250r triples I believe is there to lessen the trail. The axle leading or trailing has an effect on steering also, but I haven't really studied that as much, but It does move the axle position quite a bit as it relates to trail.

[wonderboy]

Trail is leverage. More trail means more leverage the ground has against the handle bars as it is trying to keep the front wheel strait, giving it a heavy feel. Less trail moves that leverage back to the handle bars. Too little trail will make the bike /Trike unstable at higher speeds and feel "twitchy" because the ground is no longer helping to keep the wheel strait. You need to find the sweet spot.
In your setup, it looks easy to try the axle flip first, since it appears you all ready have a pretty steep angle to your swing arm.

I think what Bob is saying here is correct. I've been reading on this a bit, and although still new to me, this explanation of trail is consistent with the RaceTech suspension book.

Trail is the distance between the contact patch of the tire and the location where the steering axis intersects the ground. So as far as forces being generated on the steering system, it really is just the contact patch acting through the lever arm (the trail distance) to the steering axis. So longer trail would require you to overcome a larger force than shorter trail.

All the other geometry aspects (rake, offset, leading axle, etc) simply determine what the final trail distance will be.

[ironchop]

Rake is a funny thing. Even the "rake" that's built into a 250r's triples isn't really rake. Rake is in the neck of the frame, not the forks. The so called "Rake" in the 250r triples I believe is there to lessen the trail. The axle leading or trailing has an effect on steering also, but I haven't really studied that as much, but It does move the axle position quite a bit as it relates to trail.

This^^^^

Your frame neck is what is swiveling when you turn your handlebars and you measure directly thru the frame neck center to the ground at that angle to get your rake position, then you measure where center of your axle is perpendicular to the ground. You measure between those two points to get your trail figure.

Incorrect trail gives you steering issues

Raked trees only correct the trail so that they can put axles in more convenient locations relative to the forks and their design.

http://ridermagazine.com/2009/06/30/...ake-and-trail/
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[plevib]

I don't know if this site allows porn or not..... but.....

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[plevib]

https://youtu.be/qhuq4JhsmPw
Still haven't tuned yet but it's not too far off... have to go sweep the tire marks out of the parking lot next to my house..

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[Red Rider]

Looks great. That front end looks much more natural with the leading axle setup.

[ironchop]

Very cool build

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