PNW inland temperate rainforest

[Jd110]

I feel for you guys. It was almost 90 here today, which is early for that temp.
I’m not sure where people looking for problems came from but that nonsense has happened for eons. But whatever…..I’m not here to encourage that.
As far as being illegal to take anything. Ok? I see your point about only taking pictures and leaving foot prints. But it’s not true about being illegal to take anything in the Idaho national forests.
I’d like you to try and spread that word to all the out of staters that come here to pick huckleberry’s. It might just scare them all away lol haha.

[Jd110]

Thought more about it and you make a good point. There are certainly things that are illegal to remove from public lands. Although I know for a fact you can remove and keep other things.
I don’t mind sharing what I find with others to see and enjoy. So I’ll stop by the museum in town to see if they would like it. There was a nice display on the fire lookouts and how many there were and how many remain in use, for recreation purposes.
As far as the garbage they left up there, some of the pits are open and full of cans. Someone stacked a few manageable rocks over some pits. They are visible but I guess someone out there may consider them artifacts.

[ATC King]

Thank you.

Yes, I was going to say that item may fall under the definition of artifact, which is kind of vague. It's not quite old enough for it to fit the age defined in the The Archaeological Resources Protection Act (ARPA), but it is still considered federal property, so that could be enough to make something stick.

Artifact laws can have some serious consequences, and it's temping to pick things up, not knowing.

The huckleberries can be harvested for private use, not commercial and if I was to look closer, I'm sure there's a daily limit, which going over may be considered commercial harvesting without a permit, and a big fine.

State and federal lands have different rules and laws and I've seen quite a few people who didn't know the difference between the two. Not saying that's you, it's just my experience. National Forests are controlled by the United States Forest Service, regardless of the state they're in, so any citation/charge there is going to be federal, and more difficult to defend than if it was state.

It's just best to not remove anything if there's any doubt. If in a park or other federal land and seeing someone in plain clothes picking plants, they may be native and have special permission. They could also be a college research group, or any other person/group with permission or a permit. I wouldn't base my actions off of others, it could result in a fine, and/or expulsion.

The Rangers aren't out to get the general public, but they are bound by law. Some things they may get to apply their judgement to, and others may be cut and dry. I'm not one to test that line. There's always the chance for extremists from the public too, people who get tied in knots over relatively trivial things, like cairns. That one gets brought up quite a lot, are they ok or not, let them stand or knock them down. I'm not getting mixed up in that discussion, I'm not building them or knocking them down, don't even need to read the laws.

We've got some federal land near us, but it didn't used to be, and we rode dirt bikes and ATVs all over there, wherever we wanted to go, open travel. After it became federal, it didn't take long for the locals to get the message, they would have to abide by the law. No more of that open travel, or plinking. I've never had a problem, I read the information they provide and stuck to it. I've only been stopped once or twice and asked the typical fishing questions, like the reason for my visit, and it never went beyond that. I miss what we had, but I can still enjoy it, and they've made a lot of improvements, short hiking trails, and even camping areas that don't have fees. What used to be really rough logging roads are now nice and wide, relatively smooth gravel.

There's an invertebrate fossil site down the road, that used to be on public accessible land and it was ok to take the fossils (only a few people knew where it was and were willing to go there), but now it's private. I've contacted the caretaker and they said they would ask the owner, but I haven't heard anything back. I wasn't even planning on taking anything, just wanted to help the owner discover the site and possibly get some professionals involved, because it's never been properly researched. They've had continual problems with poachers, and it's a difficult area to block access too. That much was mentioned.

Maybe to sum it up, I have enough experience with land use issues that I want to be part of the solution, not the problem. Not saying you're causing problems, it's just an expression.

Again, thank you for your reflection and reply. You've got a great place to live and ride.

[Jd110]

I say that, but I doubt they’d want it. It’s just a broken bowl with all the other trash the workers left behind. Anyway, I’m not worried about it nor am I convinced that any wrong doing has been done here. I’ll continue with what I do and I’m sure you will also.
If you go back to the first page 5 years ago and remember you saw something to oppose then too. I never saw that one, either. After all, peace brother….,it’s actually Jackson China 1939-Falls Creek, PA.
Edit: not sure how I can make up for the copper I ruined. That was actually a piece of history.

[Jd110]

Well…I found out I was absolutely wrong and way off base to assume that was garbage.
Clint, you are certainly correct in your statement about these being artifacts. It is a federal crime to even move it. You can bet I won’t do that again and I’ll spread the word as you so kindly did. Thank you, sir. And I apologize to anyone who took offense to my ignorance.
I took it to the forest service regional office this morning and they informed me also. They have it now but were disappointed about it.

[knappyfeet]

I love seeing your pics.

I didn't know any of this until King mentioned it. I understand you can't cut a tree & stuff but all that garbage?....I still would of taken it.

It's funny.... it seems it's all garbage. It's an "environmental crime" to remove artifacts (garbage) from the pristine natural forest. I bet 60 years ago environmentalists considered it an "environmental crime " to leave all that garbage in the pristine natural forest. If I left 7-11 cups, Top Romen bowls, Supertech oil containers & an old Ozark Trail tent there it would be an "environmental crime " to leave all that garbage in the pristine natural forest...... but if my grand kids in 60 years went to go get grandpa's stuff it would be an "environmental crime " to remove artifacts (garbage) from the pristine natural forest.

[Jd110]

Thanks knappy. I didn’t either but it’s kinda amazing how much he knows. I’d enjoy hiking with him.
I felt pretty guilty about it today….on one hand. But after talking to them this morning I wondered why it was all left there if it was so cherished.
I showed them all of the nails, broken glass, cans on and on. But they said it all tells a story and to please leave it alone. At first sight I think they loved that bowl. Mentioned it was really rare & it would be on display for others to see. They actually asked me to spread the word.

[ATC King]

Guys, It's not about feelings or opinions, it's about the law.

I prefer to help people avoid legal complications, that's all it is.

I'm not the one making the laws or enforcing them, I'm just trying to be a messenger. Federal laws aren't something to risk breaking, it's not like a simple speeding ticket, it can follow a person for life.

[ATC King]

Hey Knappy, you know Imperial Beach? The last condo on the end, the most SW private property in the US?

I looked for a better picture I took from inside to the beach, while I was having a beer, but this is all I found.

I've got better ways to spend my time than on here.

[Jd110]

The way we spend our time needs to be enjoyable. So I did that again….

If we could just chill like him..

[Pinkfincroaker]

Hey Knappy, you know Imperial Beach? The last condo on the end, the most SW private property in the US?

I looked for a better picture I took from inside to the beach, while I was having a beer, but this is all I found.

I've got better ways to spend my time than on here.

Thats what we call the Mexican sewer hole .......don`t go in the water ........you`re pecker will fall off !

[Jd110]

Well…guess I’ll take it as a warning.
I’ll continue and maybe make more visits to our wild places. I hope you do too. If you read history you know who thank for this nations wild and roadless areas. I believe it was intended as a reserve. Hence, all the fire lookout towers.
Please take this as a learning lesson if you didn’t already know. I’m attracted to picking up trash in forest but will make sure it isn’t over 50 y/o, now. Thanks for your consideration.