Perplexed-Need Help X 4

[patriot1]

Thanks guys: I think that I'm going to be able to save 3 of the 4. I enjoy the process of working through them.

More on Sammy later.

[Jim mac]

you knkq next up will be rebuilding your parts bike right? jim

[patriot1]

No way possible Jim! I'll spend my time on something with suspension or maybe start on my blue 110-I have cool ideas for that one.

Just an update: I didn't get the cylinder back from the machine shop so I have been working on everything else.



Tires mounted and forks cleaned and bearings replaced



front fender sanded and cleaned but still need to get in the edges. New decals also.



Remember Dean Martin?

Ok, now for a serious question that I need a little help with. It's kind of personal so I understand if you don't want to share but...

What do yall do with for your rusty nuts?



I know these are bolts but same difference. I have tried vinegar, muric acid, baking soda, etc. I can get them clean but they seem to rust back up. Should I try to run them through an ultrasonic cleaner? I didn't spend as much time on these as I should have but give me tips.

Go Hogs

[floydechoes2000]

Look into zinc coating if you want to do it right, clear coat or silver paint will help it look nice for a little while longer than leaving them bare though.

[patriot1]

New Day-New Challenge

Remember Frank Sinatra? The 81 200 (no letter) that I brought back but couldn't find a headlight for? Well....It was the best machine in the stable, I even took it to the mountains to ride because it was the machine that I had the most faith in.

Well...I went to ride it over the weekend and it wouldn't start. Checked for spark and no fire. Checked the off/on//off switch and it felt like moving water so I figured the switch was bad.

Luckily, having two of the same bikes, I can try different switches. I changed the off/on/off switch and still no fire.

Changed the CDI-No fire

Changed the coil and wire-no fire

Of course I checked all grounds. I don't think this bike even has a fuse on it?

Then I remembered my dad teaching me to get a push mower firing by sanding the flywheel. I looked and of course the flywheel was rusty in places and I figure the stator could be bad.

Am I on the right track or did I miss something? (I did not try a new plug which I will do before I do anything else.)

[350for350]

I do think that you're on the right path. I'm thing that it could be your source coil in the stator. My AutoX happens to have the exact same engine (81 ATC200). A couple of years ago, I was going on a weekend riding/camping trip. Thursday evening, I fired it up just like normal and rode it into my trailer. Saturday morning, when it was time to ride, it wouldn't attempt to fire. It turned out to be the source coil. I'm not saying that there was a problem with them in the 81 ATC200, just that everything else seems to have checked out so that would be my guess.

[patriot1]

So...I took the flywheel off and cleaned the rust off of it. I looked in the manual to see how to check the stator. It said "Use a multi meter and connect the red/black wire to the red lead on the multi meter and ground the black on the engine. It should read between 200 and 400 ohms.

I looked and I didn't have a red/black wire coming out the engine but I did have a black one with red on the top by the clip. I did as the manual said and it tested at 195 ohms.

Not sure if I was doing it right, I asked McC how to test the stator. He said "Use a multi meter and connect the red/black wire to the red lead on the multi meter and ground the black on the engine. It should read between 200 and 400 ohms." lol (just like the manual

So I thought, Let me check the other stators on the other bikes. Using the same method, they all tested to read 195 ohms. Could they all three be bad? Probably not but possible. Could I be testing them wrong? Very possible.

I decided to check the coils while I had the multi meter out. All tested fine on primary test but all said 1 on secondary. Could they all three be bad too? Probably not but possible. Could I be testing them wrong? Very possible.

I am going to do a Jim Mack "start over from the beginning".

thoughts?

[350for350]

Did you happen to test the coils again without the spark plug boots on the wires? Sometimes a bad boot will throw readings off and/or cause it to not run. That stator coil testing at just 5 ohms low doesn't seem like it would keep it from running, but it is below specs. On my 1983 185S, the coil in the stator tests at 195 ohms while the manual calls for 245 (IIRC). I have a new coil to install, but I just haven't gotten around to doing it yet. Ignore those manuals that tell you that you have to replace the entire stator if it ohms out bad. My previously mentioned AutoX runs just fine after only replacing the source coil. That is if I can remember to replace the CDI box that I stole to try to get the 185 going BEFORE I load it up and take it on a riding trip.

[patriot1]

Bought a new coil. Still no fire. WTH (Stator on the way)



Still no word from machine shop about the cylinder.

So I cleaned the carb and went riding on this bad boy!



Too much fun but not part of the Rat Pack so I worked on Dean Martin.



I was told that I needed exercise so I took Dean to the track:



I checked Sammy for the elusive 250sx tail light and robbed him of it. How many 85's have the tail light and tool box with tool kit?



I know the tail light is crooked but it'll be ok.

and then I sanded and polished the headlight in anticipation for the headlight guard. rushed and didnt do a good job. I should have taken a before picture. It was rough.

[ATC King]

My experience with stator testing has been that checking the voltage while cranking is more accurate than checking resistance.

The reason is that resistance is with no load and doesn't actually tell anything about the performance of the stator. The magnet wire used on stators has a very thin coating of insulation and as that ages over the years, it can break down to where it may even check out OK with resistance but when asked to produce voltage output, it fails because there is shorting inside the windings that won't allow it to provide the voltage necessary.

The source and trigger coil both produce a voltage. The source coil to charge the CDI and the trigger coil to fire it.

I just checked in on this thread and don't remember exactly what voltage you should expect but I think it's been mentioned on this forum before. It's certainly talked about on many other small engine forums.

It would probably be good to have a thread just to cover what people measure theirs at on various machines. Enough responses and a sticky would be even better.

And...NEW parts can always mean Never Even Worked 'parts'. That NEW part tunnel vision really can be a PITA.

[patriot1]

350:

Yes, I took the boot off and even cut an inch off to expose more wire for a better connection. (tip from shortline on a different thread)

King:

As always-thank you. New (but chinese) stator will be here by this weekend and hopefully i'll get it going. I think that its just something simple that I am missing. It doesn't make since to me that three tested stators all tested the same (195), Theres a better chance that all three are good rather than all three being bad, Anyway-live and learn.

In the mean time:



You can't have an SX with a tail light without. a headlight guard. I also got the cylinder for Jesse back today, so hopefully that will come together soon.

[ATC King]

I checked the voltage on my 185S source and trigger coil and it was 24.56 VAC for the source and .139 VAC for the trigger. It may be a little low for the trigger but this is a one pull engine. Just let it set for half a year an it started on the second pull.

If you're still having problems, don't forget the spark plug cap has a resistor built into it. They can go out and I've had one do so.

[patriot1]

Thanks King, I will check VAC this weekend.

Tell me about stators. I got a new (chinese) in the mail today and went to swap it for the original. Check it out:



The new one has a yellow wire coming out of it whereas the old one does not. ???

A) totally wrong part?
B) just cut the yellow wire off the new one?
C) Shoot it?
D) All the above?

Thanks for the help

[shortline10]

Ground the yellow wire to the stator screw , solder the other wire to the source wire .

[patriot1]

So when I replaced the stator with the chinese one and it didn't work, I decided to just give up, push it to the side and when I get the other 200 running I can interchange parts that I know will work.

At this point I had replaced the stator, tried three different coils, three on/off switches, two cdi boxes, checked the clearance on the pick up, took it apart to make sure timing was in the correct position and God knows what else. I decided to put original parts back on it, but it was just easier to put the stator off the parts bike, so that is what I did. Then I took the new Chinese coil off and put the one on it from the parts bike. Still nothing and getting ready to push it into the corner. Then just for fun I put a 3rd CDI on it and THE CLOUDS PARTED, THE SUN CAME OUT AND THE ANGELS SANG A HYMN...

I got fire!!! Started and ran like new. I checked the valves since I had it torn down that far and they were still in spec. I realized that I had the wrong spark plug in it also. Started putting stuff back together and did some sanding work on the front fender that I messed up the first time.

Then today, feeling spiritual because of my good fortune:



I saw the light! I saw the light! No more darkness-no more night.

That was a very difficult thing to find but I ended up with most of the parts to two of them.

Thanks for everyones help. Have a good week!