Two strokes, 2006, and the EPA

[peeweesp]

Well 2 strokes arent going to die out, most newer 2 strokes apparently will become fuel injected along with 4 strokes, that apparenlty makes a pretty big diffrence but, i just cant see 2 strokes dying off.

[Garage Boy 34]

Here in Idaho I have the same problem. I can only use my two stroke jetski in certain lakes in a few years I probably won't be able to use it anywhere but in the oceans.

I heard starting this year or next they are nolonger aloud to sell 2 stroke jet skis, and I believe Polaris is getting of jet skis and will only be selling last years models this year. And the same goes for all boats. Kawasaki manufactured a KX 125 this year but its not coming to the states. I also believe that 2-strokes can burn cleaner than a four stroke but its the money versus technology....I think it was in 1968 artic cat built the first 3 (2 are only left currently) pre-production 4 stroke (I think even fuel injected) snowmobiles but never went in to production do to the technology to make them at a profit was not there. funny thing back in 1998 my buddy bought a CR 125 and payed $5200..out the door and now I see 2006 CR 125 for $3799.+ taxes...unfortunately 2 strokes are getting phazed out as the old 2 stroke street bikes............

[peeweesp]

yeah i even read somehwere that the AMA may allow 2 stroke bikes to run a bigger bore, like instead of 125 it was something like 140 because there are far more 4 strokes, but as for 2 strokes being phazed out, i dont think they will stop making them, i know alot of European companies makes 2 stroke offroad bikes that meat cali emission regulations and are green sticker and apparently pass epa standards.

[250r'en +TCB]

what funny is, a few years ago a study about atv pollution stated that "one city bus puts out the emisions of 100 banshee's".

What did they make the ratio on that banshee, 1:1!!!!! lol
That is utter crap, a (guessing on the displacement) 9 liter diesel bus puts out the same as 100cc 2 stroke!?!?!?!?! think about that for a second!!!!
2-strokes can be made a lot cleaner with fuel injection and the new sunthetic oils, which also allow you to put less oil in the machine! The fast is that you just can't compare a 2 and 4 stroke with the same stuff like liqued cooling and such. The fact that a 250cc pinger is equal to a 450cc banger is amazing! You want a fair race? You go get your 450cc YFZ or TRX and I'll go find a 450cc l/c pinger quad and we'll race!!

[peeweesp]

well in the AMA Motorcross series they are thinking about letting the 2 strokes bore out there bikes for a bit of extra power, there would be a limit of course but, the new 450 race bikes, are pushing crazy HP for a 450, a guy on another site i got to alot (supermotojunkie.com) claims 65+ out of his crf450 i mean it is worked, probobly has tons of money into it.

[Old 179]

What about all the trees( large sections of woods and forest) that developers are allowed to destroy for their developements.(If state highway destroy's them they have to plant replacements elsewhere!) They help purify or air. MaKe them %@~*^&%$^ developers do the same.Think of all of the good riding places that we lost and has been turned into concrete or grass.
How about doing away with drive-thru services (food ect) That would help alot. How about all all smoke and grease belching out of McD's and other food joints.
Ever notice the smog around power plants. How many 2 strokes engines would it take to equal one off those stacks?????
It's ashame for us little people. we always get f!#@$. 2 strokes have came a long way since the 70's. This crap got started on the left (west) coast. Ashame this did not get "nipped in the bud" then.

Disclaimer: I'm not a true tree hugger. I do like to keep our large trees for future generations. Also I don't have a problem with the west coast. It has produce some of the best riders and equipment that has taken our sport to the level it is at.

P.S. I just like the smell of my Maxima 927 burning! Goverment, just leave me alone!

[NOS_350X]

well in the AMA Motorcross series they are thinking about letting the 2 strokes bore out there bikes for a bit of extra power, there would be a limit of course but, the new 450 race bikes, are pushing crazy HP for a 450, a guy on another site i got to alot (supermotojunkie.com) claims 65+ out of his crf450 i mean it is worked, probobly has tons of money into it.

65 horse isnt much for the CRF engine, That motor stock puts out over 50. Honda and Yamaha have always majorly detuend the atv's. Look at the atc and trx 250r's the Cr's of the same year hav 14+ More horespower stock.

The problem with the ama letting the pingers raise the size of the motor is right now they actualy get a peak horepower advantage. But because the way the thumpers put it to the ground the 2 strokes cant hang.

[EvilMooseofDoom]

What about all the trees( large sections of woods and forest) that developers are allowed to destroy for their developements.(If state highway destroy's them they have to plant replacements elsewhere!) They help purify or air. MaKe them %@~*^&%$^ developers do the same.Think of all of the good riding places that we lost and has been turned into concrete or grass.
How about doing away with drive-thru services (food ect) That would help alot. How about all all smoke and grease belching out of McD's and other food joints.
Ever notice the smog around power plants. How many 2 strokes engines would it take to equal one off those stacks?????
It's ashame for us little people. we always get f!#@$. 2 strokes have came a long way since the 70's. This crap got started on the left (west) coast. Ashame this did not get "nipped in the bud" then.

Disclaimer: I'm not a true tree hugger. I do like to keep our large trees for future generations. Also I don't have a problem with the west coast. It has produce some of the best riders and equipment that has taken our sport to the level it is at.

P.S. I just like the smell of my Maxima 927 burning! Goverment, just leave me alone!

Living on that same left coast, you do have a valid point concerning the origin of this problem, but it is incomplete. These people migrated west in the 1960's....from the east coast. My wife works in the medical field, where lesbian/liberal freak women dominate the industry. Just in case you are wondering what I am talking about, the medical field has transformed from a service industry, into a sort of goverment-sponsored socialist philosophy school. I have to talk with these people, my wife has to talk with these people, and my wife's work experience is not just with a single hospital. These people are nuts. Mentally deranged. And you have two levels of them. You have leadership, who doesn't give a damn(these are almost all east-coast transplants) about the base causes of the liberal freak of today, and then you have the rank and file, who swallow everything that leadership tells them, basically Lenin's "Useful s". None of these people ever use logic in any of their thinking processes. How does this tie in to two stroke bikes? Here in Portland, Oregon, the state itself determined, in THREE SEPARATE REPORTS, that we no longer need automobile smog testing in the state. Will testing cease? No, because it doesn't fit in with liberal dogma. When I went to college, I had to do an environmental paper for a 200-level biology class, I decided to do it over global warming. What I discovered, is that Portland's so-called "smog-problem" was caused almost entirely by industry, cars at their very worst were 13%...this is the state's own numbers. AAA had the numbers at 11%. There is a problem here, if all of this attention is being placed on offroad vehicles being absolute gross polluters, when they make up how much of the "vehicle" population?
I see three naughty people here:
1. The Sierra Club/every other idiot environmental group out there: The leadership of these groups is more about furthering their own socialist political agendas...and making money. The intelligent leadership parrots garbage science about how even farting loudly in the woods endangers the environment, this is a mask for socialist plans of limiting freedoms, while they make a buck in the process. The useful idiots, the rank and file members of these groups who funnel in millions of dollars, being taught to hate capitalism and to embrace junk science in public schools, simply repeat everything the leadership says. Conspiracy? Nah, any of you who have kids in public schools should know exactly what I am talking about. These people may have helped clean up America in the past, but it is only about the money for the leadership now. Example? The sierra club does not want a single redwood tree cut down, yet the leader's entire house is made from Redwood...

2. politicians: We really need to give pay raises of at least a million dollars a year to each US congressman, Senator, and the president. Why? Nobody with less than half a brain is going to run for these offices, unless they are stupid, or are going in to try to screw us over at our expense. The best and brightest go where the money is...the private sector. Until we fix this problem, we are going to continue to get scumbags in office who strip our freedoms away for personal favors.

3. The ATV companies themselves. There is only one reason why Yamaha, Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, blah blah ad nauseum all the rest of them are focusing on four strokes.
Money.
It was mentioned that ANYONE could rebuild a two stroke...the person who said that didn't go far enough to grasp the weight of his statement. ANYONE can work on two strokes...THAT is the problem. How are those companies going to make money in their service departments ( a large part of their profit generation), if they are not needed en masse'? In addition, so far as the power benefits of 4-strokes...the extra engine displacement is why they seem to have more torque down low, and the peaky nature of smaller two strokes, plus the type of tuning they receive, where you only have top end pull is why the 450's do well almost everywhere else except the straights. They have no business racing on the same track. If you would allow 450 CC Two strokes out there, it would be a slaughter for ANY four stroke of the same size. Why not allow KX/CR500's out there? There is also the tech factor: you can't really improve the two stroke engine beyond what has already been done..the latest two stroke MX'ers are phenominal, and as clean-running as possible. The only way to clean them up any further is the fuel side, to eliminate the sulphur out the fuel, and to use synthetic oils. But they can't make money on selling "old" technology (lol, yeah by maybe a year). The four stroke emergence is simply a marketing gimmick...anyone with a brain can see that spinning a camshaft(s), opening valves against valvesprings, the chain, it all adds rotational friction that robs power. In addition, where as a 4-stroke might fire 5000 times a minute at a certain RPM, the two stroke fires at 10,000 times a minute...more power there. The super-lightweight materials (oh, and super costly) get a 4-stroke close to a two stroke...but they can never catch up. The Two stroke is the superior engine. This gimmick is proving profitable, however...look at how many people spend thousands of dollars on parts that would not even be needed for a two stroke, to make their 4-stroke just keep up with an old banshee...a bigger cylinder jug on a two stroke, and you are done. You have to spend darn near a grand for a similar kit on a 4-stroker...
The factories have their new gimmick, and how better to sell it? By not raising a finger to combat any of the stupidity the government shoves out...simply raise their hands up, and say "sorry, nothing we can do about it...government says we have to quit building the two strokes...."...and charge a premium price for that new technology..which is to spend and try to make a fortune selling vehicles that run almost exactly the same as the two stroke bikes they are replacing...

Sorry if this was butchered, i was in a hurry.


Watching the Alito confirmation hearings, Ted Kennedy pretty much verified that he is only parroting some socialist group's crap, as another senator told him to finish his sentence; how should she know that his sentence wasn't finished, unless they had rehearsed this beforehand?

[Old 179]

hey west coaster!
We need you in Washington D.C.
You hit it right, on #3. Back in the 80's AMA let debore 200cc (from 250 2 strokes) run againts 200x for a while destroying that class, they finally got their own class alittle later on.
Here, a few years ago, AMA allows a 450 4stroke run in the 250 2 stroke class, and 250 in the 125 class. Why didn't they follow what they did in the 80's and had 250s againts 250 and 125 againts 125??????? Because 4 stroke would not hang with the 2 strokes with out a unfair advatage. It still took several seasons to get them where they could beat the 2 stroke !!!!!!
USA has really went to hell these last 25-30 years. I wish we had every last one of our WWII soldiers living as if it was 1946, after the war, they would not put up with this crap!!!! Those pin heads would not go againts what our vets fought for.
The goverment would be for the people and not butt buddies with big buisness.
Our man Mitch (republican govenor) is leasing our highways to foreign buisnesses ( the toll roads). saves money!! Our Manufacture has been sold out, now its our roads. what the hell will be sold off next?????

[TimSr]

What did they make the ratio on that banshee, 1:1!!!!! lol
That is utter crap, a (guessing on the displacement) 9 liter diesel bus puts out the same as 100cc 2 stroke!?!?!?!?! think about that for a second!!!!

Ummm, they mean 100 Banshees, not a Banshee 100.

[250r'en +TCB]

Ummm, they mean 100 Banshees, not a Banshee 100.

oh now I get it! Anyway obviosly 100 banshee's are gonna put out more than a city bus!
I DEFINATLY agree how retarded it is that developers and the state can come in and swipe away thousands of tree's in on stroke yet they have no trouble doing it! such crap!!!!!!!