Help On 200x Motor Troubles

[200xadam]

Hi
I just rebuilt my 200x motor. i replaced everything that touches the kickstarter gears. because my kickstarter gears where all stirpped out. i got it bored .080 and i got a 12:1 high compression wiseco piston. ive got a supertrapp exhaust system (it has discs on the end instead of an end cap) and ive taken all the discs off so its bassicaly a strait pipem and i have a uni air filter without the air box lid. my main jet is a 110 and it runs like sh*t.

i cannot get it to start from kicking it. i have to have it pull started by a lawn mower. but when it starts it will only idle, when i give it gas it boggs out. it is also blowing a little bit of blue smoke like its burning oil. what could i have done wrong durring the rebuild that could be causing this??

there is also an oil leak comming from the case to the kick starter, im going to re seal it but could that be effecting my engine??

me and a friend did all the work so we could easily have messed something up lol, what do you think is causing all the trouble?

Thanks

[jenndnn3]

Did you split the engine? or just do the kicker gears?

I am betting 110 is too lean, up it.
When you rebuilt, did you make sure the rings were placed correctly and the gaps place aprox 90 degrees away from each other?
12 to one is gonna be a ***** to start, I bet it is hard to kick? Sometimes you need to break her in a lil to make life just a touch easier.
Speaking of breakin, when you got her running you took it easy right? You didnt race it around full throttle or anything did ya?
I assume all timing, and adjustments are well within specs? A hair off causes fun starting issues.
How were those valves?
The oil leak would not cause your other problems if only it is out of bottom end. Where is it exactly?

[200xadam]

i was thinkin 110 was too lean too! i started at 145 and it was way to rich so i went down to the 110 and it still acts like its rich so im very confused,

i never actualy got it to run on its own it would only idle, if i gave it throttle it bogged out and died as if it was running rich, and it backfired once shooting a cloud of blue smoke, hence the thought of oil burning. i did split the cases...unfortunately that was the most annoying thing ever. im going back in to check the piston a friend of mine did the rings and he said that they are spaced out away from eachother but in no specific spot, so im thinking that might be effecting it?

yea it is a bi*ch to kick, i have a bruise on the bottom of my foot thats just a big line lol

the timing..i kept the notch in the top windown on the case but it was trying to pull out so it was on the very right edge but if we moved the cam chain a link over it was off so i think its right..

and for the valves..what are * asking??

i didnt do anything with the valves yet...i bought performance valves but i have not yet put them in because im getting a port and polish done to my head before i put them in.

the oil leak is on the kicker case the small case right behind the right foot peg. where the kickstarter comes out of.

pls help its becoming very irritateing to have a machine that i cant even run!!

and i do know the rules of breaking in a motor and the heat cycles i need to put it throught so dont worry about that

[Macs]

also check your compression, assembly lube will take a while to burn off ( please tell me you used assembly lube or lithium grease). your engine will not run right until it has burned off. but this remids me of a problem i had were for some reason when i had gotten the engine bored it didnt match the piston size. it was either a miss comunnication or something ( that is why i bring the new piston to the machine shop for now on so they can match it). i couldnt figure out why i was having to push it around the block to start it and it wouldnt run past idle. also you will have to richen your main. with the exhaust you are definatley running lean. i wouldnt run it with no caps cause you will burn the valves rather quickly.

[200xadam]

ok i used my regular motor oil as lube, and i figured that it might be that but i wasnt sure i kinda forgot about that, my piston is the correct size lol thats kinda funny that would suck but i left the piston with the shop just so that wouldnt happen. ok the exhaust thing helps thanks, i was kinda wondering about that becuase my friend told me to run it open i was kinda thinkin why dont they make straight pipes if its ok then..? ill put my disks back in and see if it makes a difference as well. i dont know about the jetting thought what should i do should i go back to the 145? i also have a 155 and the 110 that im useing

[Hornetpowerspor]

i was thinkin 110 was too lean too! i started at 145 and it was way to rich so i went down to the 110 and it still acts like its rich so im very confused,

i never actualy got it to run on its own it would only idle, if i gave it throttle it bogged out and died as if it was running rich, and it backfired once shooting a cloud of blue smoke, hence the thought of oil burning. i did split the cases...unfortunately that was the most annoying thing ever. im going back in to check the piston a friend of mine did the rings and he said that they are spaced out away from eachother but in no specific spot, so im thinking that might be effecting it?

yea it is a bi*ch to kick, i have a bruise on the bottom of my foot thats just a big line lol

the timing..i kept the notch in the top windown on the case but it was trying to pull out so it was on the very right edge but if we moved the cam chain a link over it was off so i think its right..

and for the valves..what are * asking??

i didnt do anything with the valves yet...i bought performance valves but i have not yet put them in because im getting a port and polish done to my head before i put them in.

the oil leak is on the kicker case the small case right behind the right foot peg. where the kickstarter comes out of.

pls help its becoming very irritateing to have a machine that i cant even run!!

and i do know the rules of breaking in a motor and the heat cycles i need to put it throught so dont worry about that

If you didnt do anything with the valves or the head, I would guess that you have sloppy valve guides and worn valve seals, and that is where the smoke is coming from. Also when you align the marks for your timing, make sure that your piston is at TDC of the compression stroke. If your timing is way off that could cause your motor to bog and backfire like you stated.

[200xadam]

my timeing is relatively right i believe, i had a friend help me on this motor that has rebuilt a few others, and he didnt know the timeing so he asked his friend that has a bunch of old three wheelers and he showed him how to time it so it should be right...but * never know lol all the help is appreciated

[200xadam]

and the sloppy valve guides and seals what is that about? the valves didnt look bad on it they looked relitively clean the motor had a top end rebuild last summer so i dont think there too bad, atleast i dont expect them to be but this is my first time takeing on the inside of a motor so i could be wrong

[Hornetpowerspor]

Your valves could be fine and still have worn guides. But if you had your head rebuilt last year then they should have checked everything out and should be fine, assuming they were done right.

[Dirtcrasher]

If it won't do anything more than idle then there is a big problem. Not a jet changing or disc adding problem. And not a ring out a few degrees problem either. Is the pulse generator timed right or 180 degrees out?? If the head ran before then it's not the valves or guides either but hopefully you at least adjusted them during assembley. Is there a leak on the intake or carb circuit?? That would cause a bog when throttled up. It should do alot more than idle.

[jenndnn3]

So lets start with simple basics. Pull all timing covers. Set engine at TDC rockers loose. and go back to F, where is your cdi? Are the 2 lines lined up? When you go to T on the flywheel is the little black with the line now slightly to the left? Just slightly to the left? IF not pull CDI. And line the CAM up with it loose. Now this is extremely easy. With sprocket off the cam screw hole on loose side will line up with the notch in the head. Then put the sprocket on with the O lined up to the head. You just release your timing chain a little and the sprocket will slide on and off. BY the way, I found out real fast, if your 180 degrees off the valves hit the piston. AND you cannot rotate the engine by hand. So it is really easy to tell if you off or not.

When the sprocket is lined up set them valves, DO it right now. You are all ready TDC, loose and concentrating on T. Now put that Cdi on, The Cam has a notch on the thing that sticks out to hold the middle part of the Cdi. Back the engine to F, Is it lined up? If not remove 2 phillips and adjust the black box on top to line up with the black box n middle. Now that this is lined up. Close it up and move to the carb.

Carb put a 112 or 114 main. jumping from a 110 to a 140 something is way way too much.
Try a 38 slow. That is a baseline for you. Pull that plug often and check it. If it white at all especially the first couple of runs, then keep upping your jetting, You must run rich. After your broke in then you may do a real spark test and get that jetting dialed in. Or all that work you did can go out the window. After every run for a bit check your torque specs, by the way did you torque?

I put 10 to 1 on mine and it is a ***** to kick. Yeah I am a wimp. Anyway, upped to 110 jet on mine 38 slow, and the airbox lid got pulled for idle. That was its only quirk. Yours will have its own quirks.


There are a couple of quick tests you can do to know your off on timing and stuff. put your hand on the back of the carb, is it sucking or blowing, sucking is good blowing is bad, intake valve, not set right, blown, stuck whatever.

how does that spark look by the way when you ground it?

Congrats on the engine rebuild, It is a good feet to accomplish. I understand you want to ride the thing, but patience. If you hurry or are not patient then you will forget something, and whammo. Be patient be systimatic. I learned an extremely good lesson in not being patient and it almost cost me my nice 6 speed. I broke the lead in 6th gear with no clutch and destroyed my crap bearing inside my case. We were trying to force the clutch to work. rather then fix why it wouldnt work. I got garbage bearings. Lucky for me I only ran small bit.

[jenndnn3]

Oh yeah forgot, oil leak, just get a new gasket for that cover. 3 to 5 bux at dealer.

[haywoodjalikme]

I agree with Jenn, check the timing, its not hard to be off by a tooth or 180 degrees.

As for the smoking, when I rebuilt mine it smoked for quite a while until the rings seated and assemby lube burned off.

12:1, are you running "GOOD" high octane fuel? You should be or your new engine will not last long! No racing fuels with a color in the name ie; red, blue
they are sub standard for the price you pay. I run VP C12 with my 200X with a 12:1 piston and it runs way cleaner than the TURBO BLUE that I used to run.

With my mods that can be viewed in my signature below my jetting is as follows;

Main Jet 118
Pilot Jet 38
Pilot screw 1-1/2 turns out
Needle clip middle
Keep in mind that I'm running a XR200R carb with a UNI with the airbox lid on and only 4 discs on my exhaust.

So if you are running no discs on the exhaust and no air box lid you are extremely lean! And without 110 or higher octane your engine will not last long!

Check your timing, buy some jets and good fuel and break your engine in, my piston came with break in instructions.....follow them.

Good luck
Jeff

[jenndnn3]

Oh yes the fuel!! Great call Haywood, I think I may need to up mine as well. I am ticking and I know all is well.

[200xadam]

ok im running only a little bit of 93 right now, i have less than a quarter tank in it because i was just useing the 93 to break it in or w/e but i have a bottle of octane boost i plan on dumping some in to equal it out hopefully, i will be running Torco racing fuel when it is done though i believe its 110 octane.

i think i may have a major problem..., i just bought a service manual for the 200x and it told me that the notch on the piston is suposed to face the intake manifold...i was told it was suposed to face the exhaust manifold...so im thinking my piston is in backwards..with is VERY bad. also i think my piston rings are not in the correct places. i havent torn the motor apart yet but im in the procces, im just praying that i didnt hurt it already. my timeing might be off just a little bit aswell, because when i timed it the notch was off to the right of the window not the left...it was almost out of the window but not quite it was like right on the edge...

i will take that jetting into consideration too, im not sure if im goona run disks or not on the exhaust im going to see how it works..i heard the more disks * have the better performance thought..? is that true??