'86 250R and '86 350X on dyno tonight....

[Mr. Sandman]

Interesting info fyi, I like it. It's just too bad all the self proclaimed experts either can't read or understand your intentions and results (why didn't you do this? why didn't you do that? the results are skewed because of this! the results are skewed because of that!)

[HRC1]

Interesting info fyi, I like it. It's just too bad all the self proclaimed experts either can't read or understand your intentions and results (why didn't you do this? why didn't you do that? the results are skewed because of this! the results are skewed because of that!)

Ok, what were the intentions then? If the intention was to get false reading then that was acomplished. These are not true readings period. No dyno tires, no afr reading. Using fuel with WAY too mutch octane. Was the chain lubed and ajusted so it didn't cause drag? Was the brake taken off so it didn't drag? Was there a correction factor used? I guess i'm interested in what a stock bike can make and not what the bike makes in current form. As far as self proclaimed expert go's, i have been playing this game long enough to know what's right and wrong. I like factual data, obviously some do not....

I'm done, i didn't reply in the first place to start a war, just ask a question. Now i get flamed for asking the obviouse. You all showed me, lol

[Speedster700HP]

Nice post! It's not easy to find dynos of the old trikes. I believe 5th gear is probably 1:1, therefore, to be accurate you should dyno in 5th or whatever gear is 1:1. You are undoubtedly losing power by dynoing in 3rd.

This session helps demonstrate to those that might think the 4-stroke 350X has any chance against the 2-stroke 250R---forget about it!!!! Big difference.

[Mr. Sandman]

Who's starting a war? fyi posted 3 different times that he was looking for a baseline to compare these results to future mods on the same machines. He never said that these dyno runs were to find anything but that. Sure, you can do a lot of things differently to get optimum/exact results, but as he said the 1st, 2nd and 3rd time, that was never his intention, it was only for fun, and not to prove something. It's unfortunate that lips can't be read over the internet, as plain typed English didn't seem to get through.

[fyi]

Well, I guess the 4(fourth) time's hopefully a charm telling you the same thing, so hopefully it sticks this time.....

"I'm not trying to sell anything, I'm not trying to teach anyone anything, I'm not trying to prove anyone or anything right/wrong and I'm certainly not trying to change the world. It was done for fun, for ourselves, that's all...nothing else."


If you want to throw the info I posted here in the trash and say what you wish about me, the machine or the method we dyno'd the ATC, than by all means~ you certainly have my blessing. I can tell you one thing though, I'll still sleep very well at night knowing you did so.

[Blown 331]

Nice post! It's not easy to find dynos of the old trikes. I believe 5th gear is probably 1:1, therefore, to be accurate you should dyno in 5th or whatever gear is 1:1. You are undoubtedly losing power by dynoing in 3rd.

This session helps demonstrate to those that might think the 4-stroke 350X has any chance against the 2-stroke 250R---forget about it!!!! Big difference.

I beleive 5th gear is 1 to 1 and 6th is overdriven. I've always had my cars dynoed in direct drive.

Edit
I had 4th and 5th, forgot they were 6 speeds.

[fyi]

I'm not sure what gear is 1:1 on the 250R, but on the 350x~ 6th is the nearest to a 1:1 ratio of all the gears with O.E. size tires. With that said, there is no way I'm spinning either of those machines that fast on the dyno in a 1:1 pull no matter how accurate the data....for not only my safety setting on the thing, but for the machine/tires. They were never meant to spin a 2864 lb. steel car dyno drum at those kinds of speeds it would be going in 6th and I'll bet it wouldn't be too pretty having a tire or two come apart on the dyno at those speeds.....

[ATC crazy]

Nice post! It's not easy to find dynos of the old trikes. I believe 5th gear is probably 1:1, therefore, to be accurate you should dyno in 5th or whatever gear is 1:1. You are undoubtedly losing power by dynoing in 3rd.

This session helps demonstrate to those that might think the 4-stroke 350X has any chance against the 2-stroke 250R---forget about it!!!! Big difference.

Actually, he would be gaining power in 3rd gear, because the gears are multiplying the power to the wheels. But it should have been run at a 1:1 ratio for true power readings.

[Speedster700HP]

I'm not sure what gear is 1:1 on the 250R, but on the 350x~ 6th is the nearest to a 1:1 ratio of all the gears with O.E. size tires. With that said, there is no way I'm spinning either of those machines that fast on the dyno in a 1:1 pull no matter how accurate the data....for not only my safety setting on the thing, but for the machine/tires. They were never meant to spin a 2864 lb. steel car dyno drum at those kinds of speeds it would be going in 6th and I'll bet it wouldn't be too pretty having a tire or two come apart on the dyno at those speeds.....

The wheels coming apart at 65 mph? LOL if they will do that on the dyno, they would do the same on the dirt and we would all be in trouble. I have spun the tires of my car on the dyno at 170 mph!

You do have a good point about the stress caused by a small engine turning that big drum, though.

[Speedster700HP]

Actually, he would be gaining power in 3rd gear, because the gears are multiplying the power to the wheels. But it should have been run at a 1:1 ratio for true power readings.

You make more power in the higher gears, it is proven all the time with cars, and I have personally seen this with my car. I can gain 5% by dynoing in 5th instead of 4th in my car, some see much bigger gains than this.

[fyi]

Actually that's backwards ATCcrazy.

When we dyno high-powered automobiles on our chassis dyno (1:1 is 4th for manuals~ 3rd for auto's) we will see a decrease in RWHP for each respective gear selection lower than a 1:1 ratio and an increase in RWHP for gear selections above 1:1. The same thing holds true for vehicles with smaller/taller tires and with lower/higher gear ratios in the differentials. The only thng that really remains as a trackable linear constant is actual wheel speed that is lower/higher depending on which situation you're in described above.

A dyno is merely a tuning tool to use to develop a particular vehicle to its maximum performance as much as possible, without having to visit a drag strip to dial it in everytime a change is made to the powertrain combination. A "dyno" only takes a snapshot in time of the vehicle's powertrain performance for that given day, in those given conditions and is certainly subject to go either way of baseline depending on the varying ambient conditions. The vehicle could make less power on one day, just as easy as it could make more power on another day... It's really a moving target that cannot possibly be hit due to the infinite variables present...accurately at least.

Unfortunately, most people use dyno numbers as a way to "prove themselves" to everyone else as "hero's" on what power their vehicle is making. (like we really give 2 craps anyway ) To us, we really don't care, because all a dyno number tells me is the power output potential of that vehicle, in those conditions that the dyno test took place. Nothing more..

We use our dyno here as a real tuning tool, in that we baseline a car to see where it's at (where ever that may be) and then after an engine is built and calibrated properly, we put it back on the dyno to see where we have ended up after the performance upgrade completion. We basically use the baseline number as a benchmark to measure the performance delta gain/loss after the car is finished. We don't care if the car made 1 RWHP on the baseline test or whatever, because we can still measure the performance delta accurately from baseline to completion.

Clear as mud?

[fyi]

speedster700hp wrote:

The wheels coming apart at 65 mph? LOL

Incorrect and you're forgetting a very important aspect, which most people do also, so you're not alone....

When any vehicle is on a chassis dyno, wheel speed potential is MUCH greater than it ever would be on the street or track in the same conditions, with the same vehicle. Oversimplifed causes of this is vehicle aerodynamics and powertrain load...

When a vehicle is on a chassis dyno, the only job the engine has to do is spin the tires/drivetrain...that's it, nothing else; therefore wheel speed can FAR exceed a tire manufacturers specs easily spinning on the dyno rollers because of this...

When that same vehicle is on the street/track, the engine not only has to spin the tires/drivetrain, but also move the entire weight of the car and pull it through the air, which only gets more difficult as the vehicle speed increases.


This is why it's common for a standard street car to be capable of exceeding 200+ MPH of wheel speed while on the chassis dyno, but barely be able to break 150 MPH while on the street.

With these ATV's, it's no different and as I said before, there is no way I'm setting on a open-wheeled ATV on a chassis dyno pulling at full-throttle in 6th gear with wheel speed in the 157 MPH area! Those types of ATV tires were never meant for that kind of speed, much less on a dyno and I'm not going to push them that hard just to prove to the internet public what I'm saying is accurate....

I've seen a Z-rated tire explode off the rim of a Corvette at 197 MPH and it flew off into pieces so violently, it completely shredded the rear qtr. panel of the car, damaged the rim, tore a huge hole in the ceiling insulation AND ripped the 15,000lb capacity hold-down straps securing the car to the dyno!

I don't wish for that to happen to me sitting atop an ATV, pulling this thing in 6th, accurate data or not..who cares! Plus, it's MUCH easier on the engine and clutch. I value my heath/life more than that...

[Rex Karz]

Welcome to the internet ! Everyone's an EX-SPURT, even the 15 year old riding his mommy's trike. What I came away with was that I was impressed by the 350X's "area under the curve" i.e. the large gobs of power in the lower rpm's. I was also impressed by the amount of advice on how to "Improve Your Baseline" LOL LOL

[daputz]

Actually that's backwards ATCcrazy.

When we dyno high-powered automobiles on our chassis dyno (1:1 is 4th for manuals~ 3rd for auto's) we will see a decrease in RWHP for each respective gear selection lower than a 1:1 ratio and an increase in RWHP for gear selections above 1:1. The same thing holds true for vehicles with smaller/taller tires and with lower/higher gear ratios in the differentials. The only thng that really remains as a trackable linear constant is actual wheel speed that is lower/higher depending on which situation you're in described above.

A dyno is merely a tuning tool to use to develop a particular vehicle to its maximum performance as much as possible, without having to visit a drag strip to dial it in everytime a change is made to the powertrain combination. A "dyno" only takes a snapshot in time of the vehicle's powertrain performance for that given day, in those given conditions and is certainly subject to go either way of baseline depending on the varying ambient conditions. The vehicle could make less power on one day, just as easy as it could make more power on another day... It's really a moving target that cannot possibly be hit due to the infinite variables present...accurately at least.

Unfortunately, most people use dyno numbers as a way to "prove themselves" to everyone else as "hero's" on what power their vehicle is making. (like we really give 2 craps anyway ) To us, we really don't care, because all a dyno number tells me is the power output potential of that vehicle, in those conditions that the dyno test took place. Nothing more..

We use our dyno here as a real tuning tool, in that we baseline a car to see where it's at (where ever that may be) and then after an engine is built and calibrated properly, we put it back on the dyno to see where we have ended up after the performance upgrade completion. We basically use the baseline number as a benchmark to measure the performance delta gain/loss after the car is finished. We don't care if the car made 1 RWHP on the baseline test or whatever, because we can still measure the performance delta accurately from baseline to completion.

Clear as mud?

I totally agree with FYI, a dyno is a tuning tool. If you want to use dyno for bragging rights.............then hit hit a few different dynos at $whatever a run and post the highest results you get .

The last dyno I ran (it used an exhaust sniffer to get the jetting on the mark), tabbed a piped raptor at 34 hp, a piped banshee at 38 hp, a stock 400ex at 18 hp, and my modified blaster at 23hp...................how many of you are willing to bragg about your 38 hp piped banshee, or 34 hp piped raptor?????????

[Troll 2]

When a vehicle is on a chassis dyno, the only job the engine has to do is spin the tires/drivetrain...that's it, nothing else; therefore wheel speed can FAR exceed a tire manufacturers specs easily spinning on the dyno rollers because of this...




With these ATV's, it's no different and as I said before, there is no way I'm setting on a open-wheeled ATV on a chassis dyno pulling at full-throttle in 6th gear with wheel speed in the 157 MPH area!

I was with you through this post. Seems like you wanted existing readings then see what the trike would read after. Pretty basic. You could have lubed your chain, jetted the carb or ran other fuels, IF thats what you were after.
I ran a old school sun chassis dyno for sixteen years. It used electro-magnets to apply a load. Set it for say 60mph and that was it. Just increase the mph to raise rpms untill power peaked and dropped.
From your quoted statmement it sounds like your dyno is just free rollers. Anyway, its been a while since my dyno days.....lol
Thanks for keeping us posted with your progress...........