Help, PLEASE!

**re-lapse** · 02-19-2007, 11:31 PM

http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/s...ad.php?t=64465

http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/s...ad.php?t=64567

Rather than re-type it, Please, read those, or some of it so you get the idea of what I need help with.. and assist me in the best way that you can.. Por favor?!?!?!?

Thanks in advance to those who help.. I figured now is the best time since there's 40 people viewing this forum.

--Brett

/me gets on his knees and begs for assistance...

**Rustytinhorn** · 02-20-2007, 01:16 AM

Its almost impossible to help someone step by step without actually being there in person, however I'll give my input.
I read your other threads.....this might clear things up a bit.

If your bike ran once on the current carb settings it should run again, so I wouldn't worry about the carb right now. From what I've read it sound like either 1. Piston Rings 2. Intake & exhaust valves 3. Something with the electrical.

1. The purpose of putting the Auto Tranny fluid in your cylinder was to tell us if the piston rings were bad or if the intake and exhaust valves where bad. The purpose if holding WOT was to allow maximum airflow into the cylinder during the compression test. The blue smoke that you got was because the fluid that you poured into the cylinder got burned, and the backfire could also been a result of the fluid. I wouldn't worry about it.
Because the compression went up much higher when you had ATF (Auto Tranny Fluid) in your cylinder, it means that the rings around your pistion is bad and/or the sleeve is scratched up allowing the air to "blowby" the rings and piston.
To correct this you will need to take the engine apart and inspect the piston and sleeve. ( I think thats what the wall of the cylinder is called???) There should be no or very little signs of wear. (Thats funny, cuz usually when your rings are gone you will burn a lot of oil.)

If in doubt. take the cylinder and piston to your dealer and ask them to just look at it right there and then and see if it looks worn to them. If there is no wear on the piston or sleeve, then you could probably just put a new set of rings on your piston and be just fine.
To take the engine apart and re-assemble it I recommend using your repair manual. Also Clymer sells ver good manuals with detailed instructions and lots of pictures.
The reason the bike started when you had the ATF in the cylinder was because it temporarily restored a higher compression to your bike.

2.If your intake or exhaust valves are worn or sticky then that would cause the bike to loose compression. From what it sounds like I would look into the piston rings before worrying about the valves. If you are still worried, find someone that could check the gap on your valves for you. Your repair manual will also tell you how to. The dealers around here will do a vavle adjustment for around $65. It is a lot of money for a little project. However, it requires some knowhow to check and adjust them, and I'm not the one to tell you how to do that. Refer to your Repair Manual or ask a good freind. It isn't too hard.

3. To the best of my knowledge and off the top of my head the points are a what help creates the spark for your sparkplug. They are are located in a unit on your bike that acts as a mini-generator. This also is what helps power your headlight and tailights. If the points are worn or not getting good contact, then it would keep your sparkplug from getting enough current or voltage or whatnot to create a powerful enough spark on your sparkplug to ignite the gasoline/air mixture.
The "timing", on the other hand, (and I've heard of adjusting ignition timing and cam timing) is what controls when your spark plug "sparks", as it will only spark every other time the piston is TDC (Top Dead Center). Your manual should tell you how to adjust the timing also.

All-in-all, it sounds like the rings to me, a low compression problem. I would look into the rings. Also a trick to starting a vehicle with low compression is to push start it. Push starting it will turn the engine over just as fast if not faster then what you could ever pull start it at.

**re-lapse** · 02-20-2007, 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by Rustytinhorn

Its almost impossible to help someone step by step without actually being there in person, however I'll give my input.
I read your other threads.....this might clear things up a bit.

If your bike ran once on the current carb settings it should run again, so I wouldn't worry about the carb right now. From what I've read it sound like either 1. Piston Rings 2. Intake & exhaust valves 3. Something with the electrical.

1. The purpose of putting the Auto Tranny fluid in your cylinder was to tell us if the piston rings were bad or if the intake and exhaust valves where bad. The purpose if holding WOT was to allow maximum airflow into the cylinder during the compression test. The blue smoke that you got was because the fluid that you poured into the cylinder got burned, and the backfire could also been a result of the fluid. I wouldn't worry about it.
Because the compression went up much higher when you had ATF (Auto Tranny Fluid) in your cylinder, it means that the rings around your pistion is bad and/or the sleeve is scratched up allowing the air to "blowby" the rings and piston.
To correct this you will need to take the engine apart and inspect the piston and sleeve. ( I think thats what the wall of the cylinder is called???) There should be no or very little signs of wear. (Thats funny, cuz usually when your rings are gone you will burn a lot of oil.)

If in doubt. take the cylinder and piston to your dealer and ask them to just look at it right there and then and see if it looks worn to them. If there is no wear on the piston or sleeve, then you could probably just put a new set of rings on your piston and be just fine.
To take the engine apart and re-assemble it I recommend using your repair manual. Also Clymer sells ver good manuals with detailed instructions and lots of pictures.
The reason the bike started when you had the ATF in the cylinder was because it temporarily restored a higher compression to your bike.

2.If your intake or exhaust valves are worn or sticky then that would cause the bike to loose compression. From what it sounds like I would look into the piston rings before worrying about the valves. If you are still worried, find someone that could check the gap on your valves for you. Your repair manual will also tell you how to. The dealers around here will do a vavle adjustment for around $65. It is a lot of money for a little project. However, it requires some knowhow to check and adjust them, and I'm not the one to tell you how to do that. Refer to your Repair Manual or ask a good freind. It isn't too hard.

3. To the best of my knowledge and off the top of my head the points are a what help creates the spark for your sparkplug. They are are located in a unit on your bike that acts as a mini-generator. This also is what helps power your headlight and tailights. If the points are worn or not getting good contact, then it would keep your sparkplug from getting enough current or voltage or whatnot to create a powerful enough spark on your sparkplug to ignite the gasoline/air mixture.
The "timing", on the other hand, (and I've heard of adjusting ignition timing and cam timing) is what controls when your spark plug "sparks", as it will only spark every other time the piston is TDC (Top Dead Center). Your manual should tell you how to adjust the timing also.

All-in-all, it sounds like the rings to me, a low compression problem. I would look into the rings. Also a trick to starting a vehicle with low compression is to push start it. Push starting it will turn the engine over just as fast if not faster then what you could ever pull start it at.

Finally some information that is useful, I appreciate all the other peoples information that was given as well, but lets narrow things down a bit here.

So, there is 3 options. A. I need new piston rings. B. Intake and Exhaust valves. or electrical. Ok.

Well, seeing as how I got that high of a compression when I put the ATF, I would also assume that it is the piston rings.

I'm not going to purchase anything for it, just yet. What I'm going to do, is pop the carburetor off, pop the gas tank off, pop the seat off, pop the head off, and take so many damn pictures that it's almost like ya'll are here with me. So that way, you can tell me what I need to be doing, or looking at.

As I'm not very "rich" or to be quite honest, have any income at all, I can't afford the "Clymers" manual. Even though, it is fairly cheap. So, I downloaded the one that was listed on here, it's not for my year, but I was told it's 99% the same.

There is some instructions in there how to disassemble the motor, and re-assemble it and what not, so I'll follow those as thorough as I can.

Like I have said before, I'm not very automotive savvy, so i dont' know a whole lot as you can probably already decipher.

But, I'm going to try my best, I've gotten other bikes running with no money, I'll figure something out for this one. The sad part? My last bike was an Enduro, realllly old, probably 70's too, and I used a waterbottle with a sip lid for the "gas tank" because I couldn't find a gastank at a junkyard or anything. It worked fairly well, we never did get it to kickstart, we always had to push start it.

Seeing as I am the only one working on it at this point and time, I can't exactly "Push" start it.. So, that can't happen unless I have some help.

About getting a friend over to help me? That's what I've been looking for, I don't know anyone around here that is willing, or knows enough. To be honest, I know more than all my friends and brothers and what not combined, on that machine. Because I've researched, and "TRIED" to understand the ins and outs.

Although I'm not a mechanic, I'm starting to thank the lord I didn't go into this profession because it's really, really, aggravating me.

Never the less, I'll pull the motor apart, and see what I can do with it, get some pictures, show you guys, and go from there to decipher, what it is, that I need to do.

I just don't understand why it's doing this, because when we got it out to my place, it wouldn't start, sure, because it was almost -20 below. but when it warmed up, we got that *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited* runnin', no smoke, nice idle, and it was seeming to be awesome, so I rode it.. with one flat tire.. although I couldn't punch it, it was still entertaining.. but after that, it hasn't started... I don't understand what I'm doing wrong, or anything.. Why it started then, but not now..

It's an amazing story, but for some reason my karma has turned against me and it's not making anything easier.

But as I said, I'll definitely do all that I can on my own before I require you guys to help me out again.

Thanks once again, for all your help. I appreciate it to no extent.

If you're willing to assist me over the phone, since that's easier than online, just message me your name, number, and what not, and we'll go from there.

Thanks!

--Brett

**Rustytinhorn** · 02-20-2007, 01:50 AM

I have a freind that has an old enduro. We had to push start his too due to no kick. We got it running once. He rode it for about 20 minutes then it wouldn't ever start again. Turns out his points needed replacing. Now it runs o.k.

**re-lapse** · 02-20-2007, 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by Rustytinhorn

I have a freind that has an old enduro. We had to push start his too due to no kick. We got it running once. He rode it for about 20 minutes then it wouldn't ever start again. Turns out his points needed replacing. Now it runs o.k.

Very nice. I hope to fix mine soon.

--Brett

**cr480r** · 02-20-2007, 03:13 AM

100 psi is plenty for the engine to start If you feel compression when pulling the rope it should start. The oil you put on the rings will indicate some ring leakage, However puting too much in will give false readings as well . How accurate is the guage? Is it the thread-in type with good valve in it? How fast are you pulling it? Is your recoil rope long enough to get a good pull? Is the air intake obstructed in any way?. Being 37 years old it likely could use some rings, but your main problem is likely somewhere else. Did you remove the jets when you cleaned out your carb? IS YOUR SPARK STRONG? Is the gas fresh? Have you tried pull starting it?

**re-lapse** · 02-20-2007, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by cr480r

100 psi is plenty for the engine to start If you feel compression when pulling the rope it should start. The oil you put on the rings will indicate some ring leakage, However puting too much in will give false readings as well .

Originally Posted by cr480r

1. How accurate is the guage? 2.Is it the thread-in type with good valve in it? 3. How fast are you pulling it? 4. Is your recoil rope long enough to get a good pull? 5. Is the air intake obstructed in any way?.

1. Very accurate.
2. It has the nipple with the valve, and the valve is good.
3. Well, when testing, Multiple times, fairly hard.
4. Yeah, it is long enough, it chugs about 4+ times on one good pull, so it's plenty long.
5. As far as I can tell, No, assuming you mean the air intake on the carburetor. Otherwise, the air filter has a bit of a crack in it, but that shouldn't harm the starting process.

Originally Posted by cr480r

Being 37 years old it likely could use some rings, but your main problem is likely somewhere else.

Well, I hope it's somewhere where it's not too expensive to fix, or I might have to sell the trike and wait for another day to come along where I can actually _get_ something that runs.

Originally Posted by cr480r

1.Did you remove the jets when you cleaned out your carb? 2. IS YOUR SPARK STRONG? 3. Is the gas fresh? 4. Have you tried pull starting it?

1. Well, seeing as I didn't know "what" or "where" the jets were, I didn't do that at first, but looking at the diagram in the Manual. Yes, I did, they were clean as a whistle.
2. The spark is fairly strong, it's not something to brag about in strength wise, but it's got a good enough spark to start it, although, it doesn't spark "every" pull.

3. Gas is brand new every time I took off the carburetor, new gas went in.

4. Well, seeing as it is a pull start, yea'

. I assume you mean push start, and no, because I by myself can't get it going fast enough, and don't have a long enough stretch to pull it with a vehicle, and I can't do that alone. Also, even with more people I can't do it, we did try it once. Got it going reasonably 'fast' and popped it into first, and it locked up the back wheels and skidded to an abrupt stop. Fairly usual for something that's not running and is in gear :P. But yea'.

__________

Never the less, I really hope I can fix this thing. I don't want to sell it, because I really want to ride it, get it in good condition and have a nice little trike to ride around here and there when I have time, ya know? I didn't realize when my brother bought it, that it was going to be such a darned hassle! But, then again, I was so excited to "think" that I might be able to ride fairly soon that I just got aggravated as soon as I started working on it, but I've done _everything_ I was told to, and so far no luck. So, the next step is to take the engine apart and see what I can see with the eyes of thee. Hopefully nothing too expensive ! !

Thanks for your input, much appreciated.

Keep on trikin'!

--Brett

**gottahaveaUS90** · 02-20-2007, 07:58 AM

Here is my two bobs worth....

You have a Honda US90 - which in restored/mint condition can and has fetched $5200 recently. You say you have no spare $$ to spend - then here is what you can do:

Sell the bike for $250/400 to a collector and buy yourself a bigger capacity bike that runs well OR

Sell the bike and be happy you made a profit and are richer for the experience OR

Bite the bullet - plan on taking a couple of years to collect/restore and tear the bike right down and rebuild everything!

Your attempts are like putting band aids on a 37 year old machine that you have no idea about - by rebuilding it you will learn - have fun and maybe even make some $$$.

Either way your riding days on this bike are numbered and quite possibly over!

Good Luck in your rebuild?!

**sandpuppi101** · 02-20-2007, 11:47 AM

I replied on your other thread relapse,I hope I helped ya and did'nt confuse you more!!!

**re-lapse** · 02-20-2007, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by gottahaveaUS90

Here is my two bobs worth....

You have a Honda US90 - which in restored/mint condition can and has fetched $5200 recently. You say you have no spare $$ to spend - then here is what you can do:

Sell the bike for $250/400 to a collector and buy yourself a bigger capacity bike that runs well OR

Sell the bike and be happy you made a profit and are richer for the experience OR

Bite the bullet - plan on taking a couple of years to collect/restore and tear the bike right down and rebuild everything!

Your attempts are like putting band aids on a 37 year old machine that you have no idea about - by rebuilding it you will learn - have fun and maybe even make some $$$.

Either way your riding days on this bike are numbered and quite possibly over!

Good Luck in your rebuild?!

Selling it was an option in the beginning, but at this point, it's not. I want to ride it, I want to fix it up, and have a nice little trike to cruise around and terrorize again. :P

Fixing it, is the way I'm going to go for now, whether it take a few months, or one day of adjustments, I'm going to fix it.

--Brett

**re-lapse** · 02-20-2007, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by sandpuppi101

I replied on your other thread relapse,I hope I helped ya and did'nt confuse you more!!!

I got your reply, it did quite confuse me to be honest, but I'll definitely try to understand it the best that I can. The picture, helps out. I'll do what I can!, check the thread again I left you a question.

--Brett

**general_lee01** · 02-20-2007, 05:00 PM

just take it to a dealer or some one that work on stuff like that. u might have to pay them but atleast it will be fixed

**cr480r** · 02-20-2007, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by re-lapse

2. The spark is fairly strong, it's not something to brag about in strength wise, but it's got a good enough spark to start it, although, it doesn't spark "every" pull.

I would focus my attention here. The bike obviously has enough compression to start and run as you have ridden it. Have you checked for spark since you put the atf in the cylinder?

**re-lapse** · 02-20-2007, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by cr480r

I would focus my attention here. The bike obviously has enough compression to start and run as you have ridden it. Have you checked for spark since you put the atf in the cylinder?

Yeah, it sparks about every other pull, and I mean the spark is about the size of, ohh when you plug something in the wall and it sparks a bit? that's about the size of the spark... nothing too extravagant and it's bright blue soo I mean the spark plug is fine...

--Brett

**gottahaveaUS90** · 02-23-2007, 10:36 PM

Do we have it running yet????

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