85 250R counter shaft bearing

[riverrat]

When you get the new bearing on the balancer shaft, see If you can wiggle the balancer up & down In the right side case. If It's real loose, you might want to do something. I don't know about the shim & lock tite, I would'nt recommend that. As far as the bearings go I'd go with Honda parts like Dirtcrasher said. The baering place here In MI has 3 different bearing you can choose from, elchepo's to expensive. You get what you pay for, so get the good ones. Oh yeah, you don't have to split the case to change the counter balancer bearing, but you do to change the crank bearing's of course.

This is my first motorbike two stroke rebuild BTW.
I have done quite a few chevy's, and a few boat motors, including my V-6 175hp merc.

So I really appreciate all the help guys, thanks a bunch.

Is there anyway of me telling if the crank bearings are worn, without splitting the case, or probably, what I am thinking, is to just go ahead and do it, since I am this far.

[Dirtcrasher]

If it's got miles on it I'd just replace the mains. There should be zero up and down play in a crank but even if there bad, they'll seem to spin great.

It's a 250cc racing 2 stroke, I do about 2 pistons to every one bottom end rebuild.

The waterpump has 2 seals, a water seal and an oil seal. One of them is a mechanical seal with a ceramic face so it's easy to spot in a kit.

If that other side case is worn then it's replace the case or sleeve it. A sleeve requires the case to be split and then set up on a milling machine. The center of that bearing is found and then they can use a boring head and bore it out to whatever is needed. That bearing originally had a close tolerence fit I'm sure - just a couple of thousandths. When the motor gets worn it gets a bit looser and can be used to a point. 1/16th or .0625 is way too much clearance and if a shim is used and it falls out, your in trouble.

All bad news I know... Sorry....

[ChrisD]

Well Tony..........you are finding all of the Honda 250R weakspots. While you're at it, why don't you try to take out the swingarm bolt. I bet it's frozen solid in the frame.....just kidding and don't rush into that project if you don't have to.

The 250R motors are known to have the counterbalancer holder on the stator side break the "ears" off. That never happened to me, but I replaced them with billet holders in both of my bikes anyway. You're actually lucky. Usually it causes the counterbalancer to cause all sorts of havoc when it lets loose.

The clutch upgrade is another weakness. That ball bearing at the end of the shaft was a dumb idea. The 89 setup is way better. Remember, before you reassemble your clutch, check your clutch basket for grooves in it. You can use a flat file to smooth out the ridges before you put it back together. I have done that on my bikes for years and it helps your clutch work more smoothly.

The swingarm bolt is the next notorious problem and finally the rear axel bearings.

[deathman53]

I know about those problems and had them. 3 stuck swingarm bolts, 3 counter balance holders break and the bearing on the counter balancer explode and shoot ball bearings into the motor, breaking the cases. I never had any problem with the cluth setup. I have 85-88 setups in all my motors. I have 2 89 updates for when I notice a problem. I had grooved cluth baskets, the cluth basket on my crf450r's is far worse than any 250r basket though. Not meantioned was the problems that I have also, I have broke 3 frames, cracked 2 swingers, snapped 3 axles and I lost count on how many aftermarket dual row carrier I went through. It seams I only get 5-6 months from ANY axle carrier. Also, I mx ride my trikes and that could be part of the reasoning. Hence the reason I found a shop to make me an atc250r frame, that I hopefully won't break. He is gonna make me a frame for an 86 200x next, then a crf450r powered trike using almost anything off the dirtbike I can.

[Jason Hall]

Deathman53, The 450's have so much torque a stock clutch basket gets tore up pretty fast. I have a 02 crf In my 350x & the basket was In real bad shape. I will be replacing It with a billet one soon. It clatters quite bad at low speeds, can't hardly stand It. I seriously doubt a CRF clutch basket would last 20 years lol.

[deathman53]

I am trading my 03 crf450r(it got used for the motor donation and other parts) for some parts, one of them include a hinson cluth basket for an 03 crf450r. Just to let you know, I am sending all the stuff out on monday, do you want the amount for the machining of the tripples too??

[riverrat]

If it's got miles on it I'd just replace the mains. There should be zero up and down play in a crank but even if there bad, they'll seem to spin great.

It's a 250cc racing 2 stroke, I do about 2 pistons to every one bottom end rebuild.

The waterpump has 2 seals, a water seal and an oil seal. One of them is a mechanical seal with a ceramic face so it's easy to spot in a kit.

If that other side case is worn then it's replace the case or sleeve it. A sleeve requires the case to be split and then set up on a milling machine. The center of that bearing is found and then they can use a boring head and bore it out to whatever is needed. That bearing originally had a close tolerence fit I'm sure - just a couple of thousandths. When the motor gets worn it gets a bit looser and can be used to a point. 1/16th or .0625 is way too much clearance and if a shim is used and it falls out, your in trouble.

All bad news I know... Sorry....

Na, it's not bad news. I knew this thing would need work. I am enjoying learning about it, and really appreciating the help, thanks man!

I have a lot of work cut out for me, and what sucks is I've been sick for a few weeks, and I have to be careful with the funds. I own my business, and when I don't work, I make no $.

I want to do it right, and have fun this year on the ice (I hope theres ice!)

Looks like I will be splitting the case.

[riverrat]

Well Tony..........you are finding all of the Honda 250R weakspots. While you're at it, why don't you try to take out the swingarm bolt. I bet it's frozen solid in the frame.....just kidding and don't rush into that project if you don't have to.

The 250R motors are known to have the counterbalancer holder on the stator side break the "ears" off. That never happened to me, but I replaced them with billet holders in both of my bikes anyway. You're actually lucky. Usually it causes the counterbalancer to cause all sorts of havoc when it lets loose.

The clutch upgrade is another weakness. That ball bearing at the end of the shaft was a dumb idea. The 89 setup is way better. Remember, before you reassemble your clutch, check your clutch basket for grooves in it. You can use a flat file to smooth out the ridges before you put it back together. I have done that on my bikes for years and it helps your clutch work more smoothly.

The swingarm bolt is the next notorious problem and finally the rear axel bearings.

Since I got the motor out, I am going to completely disassemble the bike, swing arm and all. New bearings all around, and powder coat the frame.

What's funny is, when I took aprt the old clutch, I don't remember a ball falling out.

Anyway, the new one works fine (on the bench) and the clutch is fully disengaging now w00t!

But gonna take it all apart again anyway, to split the case.

Which billet bearing holder you use? I was thinking the ESR one.

Also, since I don't have the funds right now to do a 330 kit, I was thinking getting an ESR piston, ESR reed cage, with carbon reeds, and dump the FMF pipe for and ESR. Bore and port the original cylinder.

How's that setup sound? Probably won't be able to touch you though.

[riverrat]

Just to update everyone on this project. I had to put it down for awhile and do other things. Now we got ice, I got the dam bug in me real bad. JohnR has been helping me, and reading ChrisD's website is helping me to get this thing setup for the ice.


Good news, I took it to backyard cycles (BYC) and he said the cylinder is not bad, and the piston is a weisco already. I also noticed I have carbon reeds, not sure what brand. They are two stage, with the bottom stage being what looks like fiberglass. There is some mild clean up work around the ports.

I am running a fmf silencer, not sure the pipe. This is my first 250R, and my first ride on one. So I don't have anything to compare it to, but when I blasted down the street with it, I could not keep the wheel down in the first three gears, I never made it to fourth.

The reason I took it apart, was because there was water in the oil. That was because the bearing holder for the balancer was broken, causing the water pump seal to leak.

Backyard is putting a new bearing on the balancer (even though he thought it was good) and I am ordering a new one for the other side. I ordered the billet bearing holder from ESR today along with a air cleaner kit (I love the way it looks!)

I am going to hold off on the main bearings for now, and hope to make it through the season, then I will go all out, and do a 330 kit with new bearings or something.

I decided to spend my money on the setup instead, and trying to follow Chris's advice on his website. So I ordered a durablue ride height adjustment, cheng tires, new rims, the same front tire as Chris, and the studs. I will also take out the small springs in the front forks.

Probably use wheel spacers for this season. To widen the stance.


The bad news is that there was signs of detonation on the piston top.
I think this could be one of two reasons, the radiators were almost completely blocked, or it's not jetted right.

With any luck, I could have this back together in 1-2weeks. I am not going to do anything cosmetic to it. That will come over time. Or get a second one to mess around with.