When restoring/rebuilding, do any of you bother to check this ?

[Huffa]

Sticking up for old tired shocks everywere......................















It's shock man.

I noticed every time I make a post about suspension no one replies , post engine mods it's a whole different story

With how cheap it is (couple links above) maybe more will want to do so now?

[Huffa]

Well the shock dissasembly sure looks like a no brainer to me and here is something that anyone can do (from Honda shop manual), for the R's that is .......

Not sure what it is for 85/6 model..........Simply compress the shock (ends the way they are on machine) on a scale, if the force is less then 57lbs, gas leaked out and it needs a recharge.

If it's more then 57, KABLUIE !!!!!

[Dirtcrasher]

Your shock is 20 years old DC, it may very well just need a oil change and need to be pressurized !

That's unfair to be judging the shock damping when it may be in poor condition reguarding gas/oil to begin with.

I have several shocks that I have won off EBAY that have less than 50 hours on them and were obviously stored indoors and they don't get me going any faster through the woods or my MX track than I already go. I have had some blown shocks which of course gave me the riding conditions you suggested.

It would be great to service them but I think your getting a bit too deep into this. 20 year old technology is the problem, not an oil change. If the nitrogen or oil leaks then the shock performs like crap but I don't believe that changing my oil will make this huge advantage in suspension reaction.

The average ATC owner isn't on a track and facing a row of never ending whoops. Were cruising the trails, blazing paths and the stock shock seems to be good enough.

It's gotta be at least a 2 hour job unless you remove it yourself, most shops run 75$ an hour and up and then there is oil and a new seal and nitrogen. I can't imagine it costs less than a couple hundred bucks. I'll bet you could do it yourself for 25$ or less.

You guys figure out the rest and I'll supply the nitrogen!!

[Huffa]

I have several shocks that I have won off EBAY that have less than 50 hours on them and were obviously stored indoors and they don't get me going any faster through the woods or my MX track than I already go. I have had some blown shocks which of course gave me the riding conditions you suggested.

It would be great to service them but I think your getting a bit too deep into this. 20 year old technology is the problem, not an oil change. If the nitrogen or oil leaks then the shock performs like crap but I don't believe that changing my oil will make this huge advantage in suspension reaction.

I can't agree, a oil change can make a big difference if you use high tech stuff, not ATF in them and that's what I plan to do.

The oil should most likely be of a thicker grade because back then the tracks were not as tough and agreed with a lighter dampened shock, so in that reguard, you should not go by what the maual says, with using ATF.

Too deep, on a maintenence procedure that many can do them selves possibly and just get them recharged ?

40-50 hours is about the limit for shock oil especially if it's the stock shock oil, for me any way.

" unless you remove it yourself" ........... well of course most evryone would do that.

I gave you those two shock company links, did you even look at them?

[Huffa]

" The average ATC owner isn't on a track and facing a row of never ending whoops. Were cruising the trails, blazing paths and the stock shock seems to be good enough. "

......but yet to most, the engine isn't good enough and they are willing to hop that up?

I understand where your coming from though but the suspension plays a very important role in trail riding sometimes and it is just totally negleted with a large percentage of members on here.

I'll bet tons of riders didn't "make that hill" not because of the motor not having enough power, but rather they lost power to the ground (bounce, bounce, bounce) because of a crappy rear shock.

This is a most interesting subect to me and I respect your view point's for sure. Hope others will chime in!

[Dirtcrasher]

So your telling us it's ok to change the recommended type of oil and or the viscosity because tracks are much more technical than they were back then??

If it's so important to have a well performing rear shock then how can you just put a heavier oil in it while retaining the stock valving within the shock?

I'm not saying there will be no benefit to servicing your rear shock, of course there will or I wouldn't bother with my front forks. I'm simply saying most people won't find a huge advantage in doing it.

[Huffa]

So your telling us it's ok to change the recommended type of oil and or the viscosity because tracks are much more technical than they were back then??

If it's so important to have a well performing rear shock then how can you just put a heavier oil in it while retaining the stock valving within the shock?

I'm not saying there will be no benefit to servicing your rear shock, of course there will or I wouldn't bother with my front forks. I'm simply saying most people won't find a huge advantage in doing it.

Your right in that most won't but then again if you have a R,Z or Tecate your a more serious and talented rider and will gain from it.

You can put a heavier oil in the forks too, to slow the motion down a bit, I have been doing it for years although in the R I just used ATF till I get accustomed to the front end, then I'll decide if it's whipping through the stroke too quick.

You can also raise and lower the oil level in forks, if you want them to get firmer quicker or firm up later in the stroke.

The heavier oil in shock will simply just slow the overall compression and rebound and then you can fine tune with the clickers, you can still uise stock valving, no problem.

Back then, there really was not specific shock oil, so you use special stuff, made for the rear shock, it could perform a lot better then it ever did!

[Dirtcrasher]

I always use at least 15wt Bel Ray in my front forks and sometimes use 1.250 long PVC spacers too. It definitely seems to help out the front end. They suggest ATF in the front but at least with forks if it doesn't perform well you can simply drain out the oil and try try again.

But for the rear, if I do ever change one I would probably stick with the OEM's recommendation. If you send out a shock to "Pro Action" or someone they want to know your weight and riding style. Then they change the internal shims or valving from your information. I had works shocks on my 94 CR250 and that bike had incredible suspension. It cost me about 700$ to have both ends serviced. But, there is so much more suspension travel in an MX bike that ya can't even compare them to a trike.

I looked in my service manual for my 350X and they rec ATF in both ends... I wonder what they suggest for an MX bike? and I wonder what advantage ATF has over a viscosity type oil such as 10wt??

[rally4x4racer]

[QUOTE=Huffa;541042] till I get accustomed to the front end, then I'll decide if it's whipping through the stroke too quick. QUOTE]

that is the same stage I am at with my rear shock on the 350X - still trying to get a feel for it before i decide how to change it. maybe rebuild - maybe new shock.

has anyone looked into what quads have mono shocks and which new quad mono's will interchange with our most popular trikes? I think this is some research that is worth the time.

[Dirtcrasher]

Apparently swapping shocks from model to model just isn't the right thing to do. That angle the shock is at and the distance from it's mounting point to the pivot point (swinger bolt) are all figured in by an engineer along with it's internal valving.

I think we get excited when we find a way to mount a newer model shock on our machines only to find it doesn't work well. But, it does work better than the blown shock we had!

Like the SX, I have mounted both a Blaster shock and a 200X on my 87 250SX and neither one of them worked well. There simply isn't enough travel in that rear end and it mounts so straight up and down and without a linkage that it just didn't work out.

I'm sure there are some swaps that do work well. Lots of guys are putting Banshee (I think) shocks on their Tri-Z and seem to be happy with the results.

[Huffa]

Those spacers DC, all your doing there is stiffing up the travel while it is sitting still, you are not changing the overall stiffness, just binding up the coils sooner then they should be.

Also you can't be possibly using all the travel because of that, the spring won't compress enough anymore to bottom out.

Try this if you want, 1st you need one fork boot off if you are running them.

Let the spacer in and put a zip tie on fork tube, now ride it and try to use all the travel on a good jump or anything you feel will most certainly use all the travel, now take note how far the zip tie is push up towards the top (near bottom triple clamp)..........now take the spacers out and do it again, I'm almost postive they would be up higer equal to the approx length of your spacers.

[Huffa]

Apparently swapping shocks from model to model just isn't the right thing to do. That angle the shock is at and the distance from it's mounting point to the pivot point (swinger bolt) are all figured in by an engineer along with it's internal valving.

I think we get excited when we find a way to mount a newer model shock on our machines only to find it doesn't work well. But, it does work better than the blown shock we had!

Like the SX, I have mounted both a Blaster shock and a 200X on my 87 250SX and neither one of them worked well. There simply isn't enough travel in that rear end and it mounts so straight up and down and without a linkage that it just didn't work out.

I'm sure there are some swaps that do work well. Lots of guys are putting Banshee (I think) shocks on their Tri-Z and seem to be happy with the results.

Yea your right, not only does the shock differ but the pro link leverage is designed with that shock in mind.

be a whole different ball game if the shock was mounted right to the swinarm with out the leaverage arm.

[Huffa]

I wonder how many are running their shock like this ?

The bottom out "cone" is as hard as a ROCK, just replacement of that alone will make it bottom out so much more gradual and plusher and not kick up the rear end near as much.

Very hard to see they are shot until you feel them unless they are like mine. Some may not even have them on any more ?!

..........and now a days they have much better bottom out cones that are made of better material.

.......and the gas pressure test I mentioned, I got less then 20lbs of pressure, calls for 57.

Too bad I don't know the machine real well so I could report my before and after findings but maybe someone else will if they take all this advice ?

[250rAL]

My rear shock has been rebuilt twice during the time I have owned it. Last time, everything but the body was replaced. It's called maintenance people! If you're still running the same piston in your motor that you were 20+ years ago than I guess you don't need very good suspension action.

[Huffa]

My rear shock has been rebuilt twice during the time I have owned it. Last time, everything but the body was replaced. It's called maintenance people! If you're still running the same piston in your motor that you were 20+ years ago than I guess you don't need very good suspension action.

Yea, because it is probably about to sieze

Congradulations on being one of the few that is a believer in shock maintenence like I am.

So in other words all the parts are still available? How much was that, to replace all the guts, oil change and nitro charge ?

You do it and if not have a link to company that did ?

You forgot that on your list !