Thinking out-loud, sport quads

[ccdhowell]

I've started thinking about my options for a sport quad. I want one I can race in a local cross country series that is fairly quick and reliable. I waisted about 3 hours last night on the internet looking at the latest offerings from all the major makers, I'm not terribly connected to any brand. I'm thinking 450cc is a minimum.

Last year I went and rode a new Suzuki LT450R and really liked it... and the dealer is a good one too. Only thing about the zuki is no reverse. Seems like a big deal to me, but I ride my Tecate all the time with out reverse and without problems.

The Kawasaki KFX450R is a great looking machine, has reverse, nothing to complain about, but not too ground-breaking either.

I really like the new Can-Am DS450. It seems like they have put the t in technology with this one, doesn't have any real drawbacks except its more expensive than the first two I listed. The local Can-Am dealer is an RV dealer as their primary business, Can-Am is a sideline thing. They say they have all the parts and mechanics to support the machine, but it is a question mark for me.

I looked at the pair from KTM and they appear to be race-ready machines. I like the 525 model, but for nearly $9,000 it seems too much for me to get at.

I looked at the new Honda 700 sport quad and it looks like a winner, but is kinda heavy to race with, but I want to go ride one and see how it feels.

The way I am leaning at the moment is a Polaris Outlaw 525. I like the independent rear suspension and now it is in it second year of production so I'm hoping they worked the bugs out of the first year quads. Seems like this may be the way of the future and the KTM engine is a big plus.

Are there any issues I should consider for or against any of the quads listed? I plan on continuing to research on the net and talk to folks that have these quads already, but a few of them I don't know anyone that has them so I'm relying on you guys for input. Not really considering ability to mod the quad. I'd like to race it pretty much stock. I've heard the Zuki is a racer out of the box and KTM says theirs is and I wouldn't disagree. Is the Polaris a race-ready quad in stock trim?

I'd just go buy a KFX700, but the series rules don't allow shaft drive. Or I could buy an old Tecate4 or Quadzilla and make it race-ready, but I'm thinking the reliability and parts availability wouldn't be the best on an old quad and with my little fleet of trikes I work on enough atvs as it is. The courses of this race series are from 7 to 15 miles long. Quad breaks on the back side and you'd be sitting for a while. I did set my Tecate3 up for racing in the series, trailered it out for a race about six weeks ago and the president of the series forbid me to race; said he didn't allow 3wheelers in his series. I was really bummed, had done lots of work to prepare my Tecate. Now I can't get over the fact that I really want to race cross country and this is the only local series to race in so I need a quad. Let me know what ya'll think about the quads I have listed or any others I may have overlooked.

Thanks, Chris

[SYKO]

well doug echinner is tearing up the series right now on a polaris 525 smokinwrench here on the boards has one and I think he does XC on his, and now polaris has a 525 thats a solid axle and a 450 as well, you could however get a slightly used 525 and save some coin though

[smokinwrench]

I'll let you ride my 525 at Waynoka over Thanksgiving weekend, everyone that rides it loves it. Remove baffle, airbox lid, rejet, nerfs and your ready to race. The power and smooth ride is unreal, I'm 34 now and I rode a 1988 250R today and a 05 450R both had aftermarket frontends and I couldn't wait to get my 525 back them quads felts like I was riding a 2x4 and both were gutless compared to the 525.

[cody2]

I'll let you ride my 525 at Waynoka over Thanksgiving weekend, everyone that rides it loves it. Remove baffle, airbox lid, rejet, nerfs and your ready to race. The power and smooth ride is unreal, I'm 34 now and I rode a 1988 250R today and a 05 450R both had aftermarket frontends and I couldn't wait to get my 525 back them quads felts like I was riding a 2x4 and both were gutless compared to the 525.

Yes i agree. I rode an outlaw and i was suprised by the power. However if you want an easy win id get the zilla. Nothing will be able to compete, except possibly another zilla. There insane. The parts arnt that hard to find i had an old quadracer and i had no problems getting parts, but its up to you. The kfx is a nice bike too. The Can-Am is really 500cc and powerfull. I rode one and liked it alot, its so light and flickable. Its insane. The best handling bike i tryed. I just dont like the 525 irs on corners, because it tends to not want to drift instead it hooks up with the ground. Its annoying, get a straight axel if you can. But really its all personal preference, in the long run it must cost less to keep a zilla running.

just a warning about the quadzilla: dont get an 87 they have the five bolt heads which were later fixed in 88 and up, they tend to blow lots.

[willrideanythin]

A moderately built Z400 will give a 450 class machine a run for the trophy. You will also save a butt load of cash and has the reverse you are looking for. Come to Maine and you can try my DVX and I your Tecate. I bet we will both grin.

The 450R the way to go if a 450 is a must. An exhaust and cherry bomb are key features that are a must. Comes with 18s on the rear right out of the box , But no reverse.

Just my .02
Luke

[SpeedBump]

If you are mainly running tight trails and XC racing...I would NOT get the LTR. It is aimed at the MX track, not the woods. The PoohLaris is a good choice. Bit heavy, but still VERY capable in the woods. I have a new KFX450R and it is sweet, but to be race ready...couple things need some attention. The front end is a bit twitchy at high speeds and tends to wander around. $150 steering stabilizer is nearly a must have item if ya wanna race. As for power, compared to the other 450s...not gonna hang in stock trim. You really can't get much outta this bike without spending some money....power commander, pipe, filter and air snorkel will set ya back nearly $1000.00 but from what I have heard it makes a HUGE difference. If you are looking to get into it without spending a butt load of $$$$....the fella above has the right idea. You can pick up Zs all day for under $3000.00. Toss in some money for wheels/tires, nerfs, tether and skid plates....go racing.

As for the new CanAm...I've yet to ride one, but I'm sure it hauls ass. Got a buddy who races (and wins) A class MX on a Suzuki LTR and the dealership where he works got in a new KTM....he got some riding on it...his words... INSANE how fast this thing is. Couldn't get what he needed for his LTR, so had to hold off buying it till NEXT season. Big money....can't take it with you.

[BigGreenMachine]

A nice Z400 KFX400 would suit you great. Pick one up, put on some skids, beefy tires, skip the nerfs since your woods racing and viola! If you feel you've saved enough coin by not buying a 450 then I'd invest in a steering stabilizer as well for those pesky rocks/roots that want to jam your thumb.

cheers!

[Mosh]

Well,I think,my opinion will be biased and many will not like it but here goes.

I Do not like any of the new 4-strokes.They seem to be grenades.Yeah they are fast,and yeah they will walk on a TRX 250r in most cases,but I am not impresed with the reliability of them.Especially for the 7500 dollar price tag.

If the series you want to run will allow you to go with a Trx 250r,I say buy 2 very clean ones for your 7500 bucks,and always have a spare.That is my opinion.Parts are still very very available cheap becuase of the new 4-stroke craze.

Yes you will be at a slight power disadvantage on some tracks,but for gncc or cross country racing,I like the reliability and longevity of the 250R.
Running a series is all about mass pionts accumulated thru-out the year.What good will a 450 do you if it blows in the middle of a season,and you cant afford to fix it?

I have just seen too many problems with the new 4-pokes.Both the Honda 450R and Yfz 450 have been notoriuos for dropping cranks.The first year ltr450 had a weak tranny.
In any sense, when any of that stuff goes,you are looking at 1500 bucks minimum for repairs,if you can do the work yourself.

You can go thru a whole 250r engine with new crank and cylinder for half that cost,if you can do it yourself.

I honestly think that the backwoods weekend warrior racers will be going back to the 250r shortly.
Someone who is not looking for major backing from a company.
It is just cheaper to maintain a 250R over the new quads.
And honestly,I think the right rider on a trx,can hang or smoke the avaerage good rider on a newer 450 4 stroke.

I do like the new KTM,s,but is yet to be proven.Polaris,,,,,I am all American,But honestly they suck.In all fairness I have not rode the 525,but the independent thing in the rear dont catch my eyes either.Just more crap to break if you ask me.
If your dead set on a newer 450,I would say a 2007 Yfz 450.
Second choice would be the LTR 450.

This is just my opinion,But I still like the option of owning 2 250r's for the same price as 1 450 4-stroke.
Just my 2 cents.But I am a 2 stroke freak too.

[ccdhowell]

Thanks smokin' I'll take you up on that and reciprocate with my Tecate if interested, it'll leave you grinning that's for sure. I'm likein' what cody2 said about the zilla, no one could beat it. At this point I'm not worrying about them beating the machine, I'm worrying about them beating the rider. When I went out to the race with my Tecate, I know it could have beat 9 out of 10 mcahines there, this isn't the GNCC, just a bunch of local guys who don't get their jollies in the mud like most of the locals here.

I'm a big guy, 6'2" at 240lbs, I thought today about a DS650 a few years old. They are big and powerful, but have not ridden one personally, how do they handle.

I didn't know the Outlaw 525 didn't like to slide it's tail. The IRS make that much of a difference? It would be like learning to ride all over again not being able to slide the rear with ease. But does the IRS help in other ways so it would compensate in overall time on track.

If any of you guys are interested in checking out the series I'm trying to race in go to: ATVCCS.

Man this is cool and confusing at the same time. I tend to over analyze things; works great for me at work, but on things like this I should just pull the trigger on a quality quad and work with it. Speaking of work, that's the cash for this purchase. I'll get a bonus in late January that will go to a new or new to me quad for racing.

Thanks for the input guys, Chris

[ccdhowell]

Mosh, you and I were posting at the same time. I can find common ground with your post, the sound, smell and performance differences of 2strokes can become second nature and reassuring. I've rebuilt 2 and 4 stroke engines and I'd choose a 2-stroke anyday to rebuild over a 4stroke. I can appreciate what you say about the TRX250R, but I have more experience with Tecates and wouldn't hesitate to run a Tecate4 from the standpoint of the engine. I was just thinking that a newer quad with a new suspension would be much better than an older machine. I'm no spring chicken and don't want to be the old guy pushing around the old quad getting beat-up by the machine and passed by the younger guys on the newer machines. Trying to learn a new trick here. I agree that the new 4stroke engines will grenade all too easily. I was hoping to run a more or less stock engine and hope for the best. Actually the rule book for the ATVCCS lists unlimited cc's for all classes that I'd compete in so that doesn't limit me to just the 450s. I just figured that I'm used to the power of my big bore Tecate3 and really didn't want much of a step-down in power. Sprock could set me up with a Tecate4 and that may be the best route in the long run. Lots of time for the perfect quad to fall into my lap. Chris

[cody2]

A nice Z400 KFX400 would suit you great. Pick one up, put on some skids, beefy tires, skip the nerfs since your woods racing and viola! If you feel you've saved enough coin by not buying a 450 then I'd invest in a steering stabilizer as well for those pesky rocks/roots that want to jam your thumb.

cheers!

or just buy a 507 big bore and flat out destroy the 450's. If you want to win buy a quadzilla no quad can compete.

http://www.maxpower-engines.com/big-...10-icecube.htm

it says 510 but i was told it was a 507 soo.

[willrideanythin]

or just buy a 507 big bore and flat out destroy the 450's. If you want to win buy a quadzilla no quad can compete.

http://www.maxpower-engines.com/big-...10-icecube.htm

it says 510 but i was told it was a 507 soo.

Wait until you spit the counter balance shaft throught the base. Too big=too unreliable. If you part out let me know, The DVX could use some donnor parts.

[smokinwrench]

OH yeah I want to ride the Tecate, I really miss my 250R at times.

Before you believe the bad stuff about the Outlaw ride it. Is hooking up instead of drifting a bad thing? If your hooked up aren't you building speed? If your drifting aren't you loosing speed?

No way would I buy the zilla. See way to many of them get towed off the dunes. Read about them you will find all kinds of reliablity issues. As for a pair of Trx's that might be good.

Predator is also a very mice machine that is dirt cheap and totally reliable. Problem is they never had much for aftermarket support and now that the name is dead so is aftermarket support as far as new parts go.

[Nightbiker07]

i agree with the new 4 strokes being grenades.......it seems anyone that mods them has problems down he road.
my buddies raptor piped and jetted is always broke, and 2 other locals with 450's are constantly having major issues with the modded 450 motors..........their garbage.

i would get a trx250r, and get a 330 bigbore kit, and have it worked over like powervalved,ported, polished, high comp. piston and shaved head (if race gas isnt an issue). Then you will be mr. king shat, and will weigh a ton less than a new 450. and you will probably have less in it than a 450, and it will be more reliable and cheaper to fix.

[400exguy]

If you decided to do what biggrrenmachine or speedbump mentioned with a 400cc, I have an 05 400ex Im looking to get rid of. The quad is all stock and still has the original tires with pleanty of tread. It would be a great base to start with, put a grand or two more into it in mods and your still below what a new 450 would cost or keep it the way it is and run and have fun. You cant say that the 400ex isnt realiable and it has the reverse you are looking for.

I dont know much about the 450rs but if I were to get one I would go with either the honda or suzuki, I just am partial to those two brands and are the only ones I have ever owned.