Trike Fest Drag Classes & Rules

[Louis Mielke]

Well I guess they could add cc limits as well. Would that fix things?

[ATC-Eric]

Yeah, why not have a 350x and up to a 265R class, the big bore class and the Open class?

This is to confusing, my head hurts!

[Tri-ZNate]

This is to confusing, my head hurts!

Yeah i missed the 350x class, i figured they were being include into the stock 2 stroke class. Just put a CC restrictions on it. Who cares, it mostly for bragging rights anyway.

[TRITecate350]

I understand the Hall boys run under 90ccs and that is ok with me. And I believe the industry standards are a joke, at age 15 I was 160lbs and could handle larger bikes, but they want me on a lt 80..... I wouldnt mind someone racing on a 110 or big red etc. I think they may want to fine turn the rules for anyone who would put there child on a modded 250r or bigger.

I cant answer for everyone, but here is my thoughts and oppinions. The modified class has a certain bragging rights that goes along with it, you are souping up a trike to its full potential and seeing how it stacks up with comparable bikes. I build lots of parts and have built many engines, this is the class I cater to, those who hop up their oem bikes.
As far as open class goes, anyone can throw a 3 wheeler rear end on a cbr900 and win. Anyone can win with money and not much thought. Buy a large street bike engine, small block chevy engine, 350hp turbine engine....bolt it in and wow...your the fastest. I am more interested in out smarting the competition with port timing, big bore, stroke, exh pipe. With the mod class it isnt the richest guy wins, its who is smarter and a better engine and chassis builder. At the end of the day, the winner can say... I have the fastest modified trike, or just like last year, the winner of the open can brag all he wants and people still look down on him for the choice of trike he built and say its "cheap"

The way the rule is stated, the tech can bump anyone for any reason he or she desires, if he or she hates Louis Mielke and thinks he is "hidding" something in his engine, they can bump you to open. Poor Louis spent 2k building his bike for that class.
My rule states the tech can only bump if the bike isnt within the rules. The tech says, Louis I am bumping your trike to the open. Louis says, " Can you prove that I dont belong in this class, is there any evidence"? The tech would not have absolute judgement unless he spotted your nitrous bottle, or other means for cheating.

The rule change isnt just for me, I am one of the only ones vocal and I have had many people who want me to fight this. Viper could put his gas carb back on his triz, Andrea and Corey would race in this class, Eric and his z, tecatez and his 330, and multiple others who are building bikes for this class and could be affected. There is a general class for those who cant compete with the mod class.

Even if they would all agree to race in the open, I would still want the rule changed. Bottom line is:
If they want to race in a class, you should not have to power to remove them if they are within the class regulations. Change the cc limit and you will have lots of problems with people cheating, and being accussed of cheating. We have plenty of time to change the engines, i am building and I will be able to fit in any cc requirements you want. But I still want that rule changed along with others.

It is fair as long as everyone knows going in.

[Louis Mielke]

I can appreciate what you're getting at.

[Billy Golightly]

I'm not the one running the drags but I've been providing input on them since their inception, some of it is used and some of it isn't so don't expect my answer to be made in stone. I'll state my answers and reasons and let the powers that be for this event make the call. With that being said:

I have not responded lately on the mod class rules, I was trying to compromise though pm and telephone. It seems that I have not gotten anywhere with that so, I am posting some questions and wanting to reply to comments made from the 1st page.

I would like some direct answers from those in charge of this event....

1. Why is it so important that you have the tech bumping rule, you have all the other rules that prevent those who dont belong in the class, why the absolute power rule?

Because of people who will sandbag. No one can with a straight face tell me that Corey,Andrea, Jason Hall, or anyone else that is just as fast as them isn't open class material. Thats where everyone raced at last year, I highly doubt their machines have intentionally gotten slower in a years time . Until we have the facility, the ability, the willingness, and the people to do full engine tear down type tech inspections for the classes its not possible. The object is not for the rules to accomodate everyone, but to accomodate no one.

2. Why is there no tech bumping rule in any other class, seems you are singling people out who would race in the mod class?

Well because I think the mod class was the most apt area for this to occur, but it can be added everywhere else too. I still think a bunch of members sticking to the rules in the stock class could provide some extremely interesting racing and show the fact that you CAN be fast without having a bunch of stuff most people think is absolute necessity.

I really think that most of the mod class entries will be comparable to the open class. Last year was a good example, Out of the top 5, there was 3 modified class bikes, and they placed better than most the 500s and other conversions. I dont think the techs will see us running the trikes in practice, so how are you gonna bump our mod class trikes to open? Are you gonna be able to stop the drag races and take us out of the class if we are too fast?


So I guess you guys are not gonna compromise with me on the rules. Changing from what you have, to this one*****At tec's discretion, machines that dont meet the class requirements may be bumped to the open class in the interest of fairness to other competitors

I have recieved lots of pm's and calls of people who believe that your rule is unfair, but they are not ones to rock the boat or cause a stink.

I am not gaining anything from this rule change, the trikes I am building for customers for Trikefest 08 are not gonna run til the drags so noone will have a reason to bump them. I invited Corey and Andrea last year and I am looking out for them.
To answer Billy's earlier post, If a sabertooth enters the mod class, I would welcome the competition as long as they fit the class requirements. In fact, I would find my self backing him up if he was bumped, just like my other competition....(Corey and Andrea).

I am open to any kind of compromise on this issue... I understand that you have all the authority in this matter and if you wanted to be more fair, you would concider changing the rule. If not, I would like to help the drag races by becoming the official tech. Will you let me be the official tech?

No, as it has been discussed the tec and class placement will be done before the races. If your selected to go in the mod class, thats where you stay, or if you go in the open class, thats where you stay unless there might be some sort of SPECIAL circumstances like someone eats a crank seal and and wants to go down a class with all the other competitors approval which would be a highly unlikely situation, but I have seen it happen before. The techs know which machines from last year are already open class material (As you have even suggest by saying the majority of the top 5 winners in last years open class are applicable to the mod class now by the rule interpretation). And if the trike is a new, un-familiar one, then they will look at it and determine to the best of their abilities where it should belong at whether they are able to see it run or not. I'm sure now I'll see practice runs all week with mainjets 10 sizes bigger then they need to be


The suggestion of the change to the line about the tec's authority to me is pretty pointless as the rules already say if you dont fit them you can't race in it.


Corey and Andrea arent worried about the Sabre because both of them are open class material that would be running against open class material (sabre). Hows joe six pack gonna feel racin against a $5,000 motor? Shiat. My 500R is obviously open class material, as is Garageboys KX500 Tecate, anything that can consistently run with them is open class material, plain and simple. If there was enough entries to have an entire class of "engine swap conversions" AND "Open production trikes" it might be different but I don't think there is.

I'm open to ideas and suggestions about most anything, which is often why you'll see me take the time to read and actually type up replies to people


I don't know the answer to the question about the youth class, that I agree will need to probably be addressed because I do not like the idea of 85lb 12 year old kids on 50+ machines.

[brapp]

will struts be alowed in stock class? and what about freaks fix;s lil 250r 90 thing he has that wont stand a chanc ein open.

[TRITecate350]

I will reply to what you have said and give you my oppinion and reaction. I understand that you are not in charge and I will still await the questions to be answered by those in charge.

Because of people who will sandbag. No one can with a straight face tell me that Corey,Andrea, Jason Hall, or anyone else that is just as fast as them isn't open class material. Thats where everyone raced at last year, I highly doubt their machines have intentionally gotten slower in a years time . Until we have the facility, the ability, the willingness, and the people to do full engine tear down type tech inspections for the classes its not possible. The object is not for the rules to accomodate everyone, but to accomodate no one.

First of all, I can tell you with a straight face that they belong in the modified class, concidering they all fit the requirements for the modified class, and are all original trikes that have been modified. note: Jason can't run nitrous.
2nd, Last year there was no modified class, so the only class they fit in was open, you didnt see anyone trying to get into the general class who didnt belong, the rules were set and you either fit them or not. Last years rules didnt have any bs rule about some all powerfull tech will place you anywhere he wants.
3rd, I am not asking for a full teardown of someones engine, the way the rules are now, you can look at a trike and know which class it is in. I think this is perfect, and should work out great. Everyone knows the rules and can confirm the class by merely looking at the outside of the trike.
I am sorry, your last statement is crazy, you have the opportunity to make things fair and accomodate everyone, yet you make a statement about your wishes to accomodating no one? Are you trying to piss people off?

Well because I think the mod class was the most apt area for this to occur, but it can be added everywhere else too. I still think a bunch of members sticking to the rules in the stock class could provide some extremely interesting racing and show the fact that you CAN be fast without having a bunch of stuff most people think is absolute necessity.

Well lets not play favorites, add the rule to every class. That way I wont feel like you are picking on Corey and Andrea when the rule was posted just under the mod class. Lets kick the Hall boys up to the modified class to be "fair" to all the other youth, their bikes are "heavily modified". Course we could bump them to the general.... Wait, that wouldnt be "fair" to the General class..... I am just joking of course. I agree with the last sentence, and I would support everyone sticking to the rules, but GOD FORBID someone is fast enough to compete in the modified class with their "stickin to the rules" general class machine, we would boot their trike up.

The techs know which machines from last year are already open class material (As you have even suggest by saying the majority of the top 5 winners in last years open class are applicable to the mod class now by the rule interpretation). And if the trike is a new, un-familiar one, then they will look at it and determine to the best of their abilities where it should belong at whether they are able to see it run or not.

Ok now we are getting somewhere, so the tech is gonna look at the unfamilar trike, without seeing it run they will place it. I assume that they are placing it using the rules of the class. That would be perfect! If they would place every bike that way and not take into account how fast they have seen it run, we wouldnt have a problem.

The suggestion of the change to the line about the tec's authority to me is pretty pointless as the rules already say if you dont fit them you can't race in it.

Pointless?, maybe you should re-read the entire thread. We are not talking about bikes that "dont fit" in a class.... We are talking about bikes the DO fit into a class. If the bike dont fit, no need to argue, they are out!

Corey and Andrea arent worried about the Sabre because both of them are open class material that would be running against open class material (sabre). Hows joe six pack gonna feel racin against a $5,000 motor? Shiat. My 500R is obviously open class material, as is Garageboys KX500 Tecate, anything that can consistently run with them is open class material, plain and simple. If there was enough entries to have an entire class of "engine swap conversions" AND "Open production trikes" it might be different but I don't think there is.

....Joe Six pack should be in the general class. If he takes full advantage of the rules of the mod class, he could compete with the saber. Corey and Andrea would be worried about the saber, and it would probably be close. But they have the same opportunity to purchase the saber kit for their trikes just like the saber owner did. That's what makes it fair, booting someone to the open class just because you have a hard on for them isnt fair. Why does there have to be an open production class? We have a modified class, which all the trikes we are talking about FIT into the class just fine....

I'm open to ideas and suggestions about most anything, which is often why you'll see me take the time to read and actually type up replies to people

I don't know the answer to the question about the youth class, that I agree will need to probably be addressed because I do not like the idea of 85lb 12 year old kids on 50+ machines.

I know we dont see eye to eye on this, and I do appreciate you voicing your oppinion and replying. In-Fact almost always I agree with what you say, especially when talking about 2 stroke engines. The youth does need some attention, if a little kid gets hurt or killed because of some cc or atc size problem, I would feel horrible being the person who allowed the setup of that class, I personally wouldnt allow my 6yr girl to drag race her Scrambler 50 against some one on a full size bike.... I would boot her bike into the...trailer.

I will make you a deal, lets leave the rules exactly the way they are, and elect me to head tech for the drag races. Qualifications shouldnt be a problem. I will make sure those fast trikes are placed right where they belong.....

[ATC-Eric]

Ive seen the trophys, Corey has good experience in ATV drag racing.







I want to run moddied class. Im afraid that as soon as you guys see my bike you will automatically say: "OH, thats definently open class material, that things fast!"


Thats BS! If I stick by your rules, why would I get f'ed in the a hole because I built a faster bike then the next dude in my class?

I QUOTE!

"in the interest of fairness to other competitors"

What about the fairness of me?


ONce again I ask you guys (in charge peoples)

What happens when I build a bike thats faster then the guys in the modded class, WHILE sticking to the moddified class rules?



DOESENT that mean I just built a better bike then the next guy in the moddified class?

























PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!! SET SOME FREAKIN RULES IN STONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Im about to dish out a couple grand into a projuct. If I get to TF and my bike is bumped up because the techs think its to fast, Im gonna be more then upset............................................. ...........





























Im building my bike for the moddified class hopefully. If I get there and am bumped to the open, thats not fair at all, because Im not ready for the open class. I have set my bike up for the modded class, not the hybrid, cbr, sled drivin, 500 conversion breathing machines in the open.

Set some rules in stone so I can set my FREAGIN bike up?!!!!






PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!







QUIT this stupid dance, and decide FOR SURE where bikes will sit.




This is just for fun, and just for bragging rights, BUT Im still concernced that "in the interest of fairness to other competitors" will end up screwing a good few "other" competitors.


Come on now.

[Louis Mielke]

Technically the Hall boys couldn't run with thier custom bikes other than for the fact that the youth class seems to bend some rules. I think there's something about quads running which totally seems moot. Gonna go reread now. lol

I can see and appreciate what you guys are saying, I just think if it wasn't you guys going on about this and you had some peace about it then people under you would be crying that they can't survive in the modified class cause big bad sprock and corey and andrea got all the time, and know how, and money in the world in their bikes.

I always saw it as the real competition was in open, and I know I'll make some people mad when I say this but the stock and stock modified were for people who were just playing or to give people who aren't everyday drag racers a chance to actually win at something. Ameture vs professional i guess would be a comparison.

I'm not an avid drag race follower so I don't understand the mentality but I don't under stand why you guys are worried about fitting into a "class".

Just build the fastest thing you can and see how you do against the best of the best. And once again I know I'll make someone mad but I don't think the best of the best will be in the stock modified class, they'll be in the open class.

OH, And as comment, Sprock I'm sorry but it doesn't sit right with me that there be just ONE tech. I was under the impression that there will be multiple techs who have to decide unanimously. I don't care what class everyone wants to be in, I wouldn't participate in something that only ONE person had final say. Now if three people with equal power all had to agree for a final decision then I could deal with that. Honestly I think thats a good idea actually.

[Jason Hall]

I think you guys should really think about this. Maybe a (1).modded class for the guys with coolheads, aftermarket Inframe pipes, ported engines, over sized carbs, No big bore Cylinders of any kind, Stock sleeve & pump gas. Then have a (2).Pro-Mod class for the engines with big bore cylinders, aftermarket cylinders, out of frame pipes & race gas no alky. (3). Open class for all the CRAZY stuff.

[Billy Golightly]

Eric, what are you building? Something like what viper has?


I'm very concerned about the fact that the open class might not end up being as fast as the modified class. That makes it kinda dumb. If you can build a FAST modified machine, then there is no reason at all that it can't run in the open class. For christ sakes look at my 500R, its all bolt together *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited* with NOT A BIT of port work, and I know for a fact that a well built 250 based machine whether its a 265 or 370 has the capability of running with it. I've seen it happen, at trikefest!

How about we just tweak the rules slightly...and this way the people building a machine to kill in the modified class will have to work a little harder or get bumped to the open class:


3. Modified class.
-OEM trikes only
-No drag frames
- any bike that has been modified Carb,bore,aftermarket cylinders,Big bores,long rods. Aftermarket cylinders or modified stock engines may via boring or stroking NOT displace at more then 400cc. NO engine swaps, hybrids of conversions.
-swing arms, total wheelbase can only be xxx amount
-NO Wheelie bars
-NO ALKY or NITROUS
-stock type configuration and routed inframe exhaust pipes only
-Studs permitted,must be ice screws,No picks,bolt tires,ect,atv use only.



And then just change the stock class to stock length only. Hows that? I guess that only leaves deciding how to figure out/protest the engine displacement issue.

***Protest/Teardown fee over displacement is $1,000 CASH upfront to be collected by 3WW***

Maybe that'll be some incentive for most people to keep their mouths shut, heck I dunno.

[TRITecate350]

I think you guys should really think about this. Maybe a (1).modded class for the guys with coolheads, aftermarket Inframe pipes, ported engines, over sized carbs, No big bore Cylinders of any kind, Stock sleeve & pump gas. Then have a (2).Pro-Mod class for the engines with big bore cylinders, aftermarket cylinders, Inframe pipes & race gas no alky. (3). Open class for all the CRAZY stuff.

I would support that, as long as they couldnt bump you into open for no reason. As long as we know ahead of time, we can adjust our trikes to fit into the class we want to run. In the pro-mod, did you mean drag pipe or did you mean inframe? Either way would be fine, I just assume you mis typed...

Technically the Hall boys couldn't run with thier custom bikes other than for the fact that the youth class seems to bend some rules. I think there's something about quads running which totally seems moot. Gonna go reread now. lol

Thats fine, as I was saying.... I was just joking about the Hall boys. But if a Pj enters the class with Andrea's 250r and wins, I dont want to here any crying when you have the chance to change the rules and prevent that from happening.

I can see and appreciate what you guys are saying, I just think if it wasn't you guys going on about this and you had some peace about it then people under you would be crying that they can't survive in the modified class cause big bad sprock and corey and andrea got all the time, and know how, and money in the world in their bikes.

This is a race, not a parade. There is ALWAYS gonna be losers, they need to up their game and try and compete. Otherwise the general class is there for them to compete on a more modest scale. Raffa state's, -Basically created for the powervalved,big bore..300,310,330, stroker,ect. WOW, You build a class for us, and all the while you plan to kick us out? Big bad Sprock...and gang are not spending all the money in the world. Eric will have a couple grand in his mods, Andrea only have about $2000 in her mods. Some people put 12,000 into their open class trike and didnt finish in the top 5 of the open.

I always saw it as the real competition was in open, and I know I'll make some people mad when I say this but the stock and stock modified were for people who were just playing or to give people who aren't everyday drag racers a chance to actually win at something. Ameture vs professional i guess would be a comparison.

I see where you are coming from, I tend to see it alittle different. I feel that many people are purchasing parts and building their bikes to be more competive in the class they are aiming for.

Just build the fastest thing you can and see how you do against the best of the best. And once again I know I'll make someone mad but I don't think the best of the best will be in the stock modified class, they'll be in the open class.

I dont think we care about being the best of the best, sure we want to win, and your probably right, the best of the best will probably be in the open class, our modivations is not in winning, it is in being fair to everyone instead of singling out people and bumping them into a class they didnt build for.

OH, And as comment, Sprock I'm sorry but it doesn't sit right with me that there be just ONE tech. I was under the impression that there will be multiple techs who have to decide unanimously. I don't care what class everyone wants to be in, I wouldn't participate in something that only ONE person had final say. Now if three people with equal power all had to agree for a final decision then I could deal with that. Honestly I think thats a good idea actually.

That is why I said I wanted to be the HEAD tech with the absolute power. My comprimise doesnt work if there is more than one tech and they can vote me down. Unanimously wouldnt work..... I would not give in on what is right and we would never come to an unanimous decision. With those are planning this race, how do we know that they are not picking biased techs who are all in agreement that ......EVIL ANDREA MUST BE BOOTED.....
You are saying you dont want one tech for the same reason we want the rule changed. Because its not fair if someone has all the authority to play favorites, if you want 3 techs, Shannon, Eric and I will be the techs then. I know, that is not fair, you guys are all thinking alike, whats the difference between that and the 3 techs you hand pick who has your best interest in their heart?

I'm very concerned about the fact that the open class might not end up being as fast as the modified class. That makes it kinda dumb.

Who cares which class is the fastest, maybe you should change the classes to:
Fast class
Faster class
Fastest class

Then everyone faster than Billy's trail machine can go into the faster class, and everyone faster than Raffas mx trike can go into the fastest class. Seems like a good idea to me. Their isnt anything dumb about it.

If you can build a FAST modified machine, then there is no reason at all that it can't run in the open class. For christ sakes look at my 500R, its all bolt together *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited* with NOT A BIT of port work, and I know for a fact that a well built 250 based machine whether its a 265 or 370 has the capability of running with it. I've seen it happen, at trikefest!

1 reason is you built it to compete in a structured modified class.....
No one is intending to be able to win the open and the mod class....
The mod class is gonna be very competitive concidering, Andrea, Corey, Eric, Viper, Tecatez are all gonna be very close in setups.
We cant help it that you have a stock 500 in your trike and you are getting beat by the modded 250s, but at least you are treated fairly, you have all the time in the world to port, big bore, stroker etc. Maybe your tech can bump you to the general class so you have a chance, since they are going to be known to play favorites.

How about we just tweak the rules slightly...and this way the people building a machine to kill in the modified class will have to work a little harder or get bumped to the open class:

3. Modified class.
-OEM trikes only
-No drag frames
- any bike that has been modified Carb,bore,aftermarket cylinders,Big bores,long rods. Aftermarket cylinders or modified stock engines may via boring or stroking NOT displace at more then 400cc. NO engine swaps, hybrids of conversions.
-swing arms, total wheelbase can only be xxx amount
-NO Wheelie bars
-NO ALKY or NITROUS
-stock type configuration and routed inframe exhaust pipes only
-Studs permitted,must be ice screws,No picks,bolt tires,ect,atv use only.

And then just change the stock class to stock length only. Hows that? I guess that only leaves deciding how to figure out/protest the engine displacement issue.

I think the Raffa did a excellant job on separating the classes, but he choose to port that one rule....you know the rule about the tech having all the power to unfairly move trikes to other classes.....
If you wanted to have these new rules, I think its stupid, but I would support it, as long as the techs didnt have the power to unfairly move ya. People will be accussing people of cheating if you have a cc limit, but what ever you want.

Maybe that'll be some incentive for most people to keep their mouths shut, heck I dunno.

If I were in charge I would want people to voice their oppinions, and let me know their concerns. But I am a fair person. If you want a monopoly on the drag classes that is fine.

All you have to do is change the wording of the rule. Louis couldnt even tell a difference in the change. You all make it out like this is no big deal, then why not make about 20 people happy and change it...... u know....if its no big deal.
I'll tell you why you dont want to change it, you want to keep the power and dictate who is gonna be in what class. You will show favor to who ever is in the top 3 of the mod class, and will ignore your own rules to have it your way.

Eric dont you dare tell them what you are building, they will use the info against u, boot you to the open....because they hate you.

[TRITecate350]

I didnt want to bring all this up in public, I gave you over a week trying to compromise in private though pms and phone calls. Yet nothing gets done or acknowledged, so here I am in the thread. By the way, I am sure some of you are pissed off and man as heck.....I am not mad and am not going to dislike any of you for your oppinions or statements.

[Jason Hall]

Yes Sprock, I meant Drag pipe In Pro Mod class. With the pro mod class, guys could build their bikes to the rules, without any reason for bumping.