86 Bearing Carrier..wtf....

[250rfan]

Right guy's hoping you can help me out here,

I've just instaled a new set of bearings and seals in a new 86 bearing carrier, now the thing is, when i pressed the bearings in until they can go no further , ie the spacer tube & washer, the bearings no longer turn - WTF.

So, i had to tap the bearings back out a little, so now the bearings turn and so does the spacer tube and washers, is this the correct way?.

So know am thinking when i instal the axel and tighten it i will be forcing the bearings together again, which will put me back in the same position as before - bearings not turning.

[Dirtcrasher]

Well Gordon, your a smart guy

Sounds like something is out of whack. The tube length should be equivalent to the inside shoulder to shoulder length of the bearing seating surface. I'd measure them and compare.

Otherwise, you are using the OD to press them in and then knocking on the ID to get them satisfied to the tubes length. Something sounds screwy......

[250rfan]

Hey DC,

Well, this is what i cannot understand, i have two 86 bearing carrier on the bench, one was broken at the adjuster tabs so i replaced it with a new carrier, so i took the 2 washers and the tube from one carrier and put it into the new carrier so you would think it should be a straight swap?.

Now the other bearing carrier is also stripped down and on the bench, so i could have picked up the other tube but the tubes should be the same length.

I've just put the tube and washer into the 2nd carrier and the overall length of the combined 2 washers and the tube IS slightly longer than the seating areas for the bearings.

But DC, the washers are basically the same ID, as the bearings, so i would have thought the washers should have a larger id, so that they cannot put pressure on the inner part of the bearing when you press the bearing to seat.

Whats the point of the tube and washers?

[Bad Karma]

The tube is there so that when the axle nut draws the whole assembly together, it doesn't damage the bearings by allowing the axle nut to keep compressing the bearing inner race until you decide to quit cranking the nut down.

I'm having trouble explaining it, but try this: The bearing outer races are pressed into the carrier and do not turn. The inner races of the bearings are held apart by the tube, and when you tighten the axle nut, the sprocket hub presses on the inner race of the bearing, the brake hub tightens against the inner race of the other bearing, and the tube keeps the whole mess from pushing the inner races right out of the bearings.

Basically, the whole assembly tightens together so the axle and bearings turn together. The front hub inner collar and spacers serve the same purpose.

Clear as mud?

[Dirtcrasher]

I'm "unaware" of any washers in the setup but the situation is the same in any bearing setup. When 2 radial ball bearings that HATE sideloads are used, the distance of the spacer in relation to the inner race or ID should be equal to the relation of the OD of the surface that the OD of the bearing finally seats against.

How it's accomplished, whether it be 37 washers, a tube with 2 or 4 washers or shims that make up the distance in any application - shouldn't matter.

If the tube were longer - the axle itsellf would allow the OD of the bearings to whack side to side to each "shoulder" and if the tube were too short, the axle nuts would bind the radial bearings because the OD of the bearing would be fixed and the ID would be driven in by the locking nuts.

Does that make more sense?? :

[250rfan]

Ye, it makes sense, i can understand what bad Karma's saying, the problem is when the bearings are seated because the tube and spacers are longer than the shoulder inside the carrier, that puts stress on the inner race.

So am guessing although i cannot turn the bearing with my fingers it probably will turn when the axel/axel assembly is instaled and i can use axel to turn the bearing.

I've just been into the garage and removerd one of the bearings, i've pulled the tube and replaced it with the other one. They situation is the same.

So both tubes are the same length & all washers are the same.

And one carrier is brand new.

[Bad Karma]

That's a tough one. I would press the bearings in until they just make contact with the washers/tube. That way you won't stress them when the axle nut is tightened. I think you should be able to turn the bearings easily by hand.

I don't think I would worry too much about the bearing outer races shifting position in the carrier, it would take a very solid hit on the axle or wheel to move them, and they probably don't have far to go. Chalk it up to production tolerances???

[Billy Golightly]

Gordon, is this an OEM or aftermarket carrier? What its sounding to me like is either:

A: The bearings are a slightly different width then original ones, causing the spacing issues with the inner support tube.

B: The carrier, if its aftermarket, has the bottoming out area for the bearings to press into, slightly "to deep". If that makes sense.

[250rfan]

That's a tough one. I would press the bearings in until they just make contact with the washers/tube. That way you won't stress them when the axle nut is tightened. I think you should be able to turn the bearings easily by hand.

I don't think I would worry too much about the bearing outer races shifting position in the carrier, it would take a very solid hit on the axle or wheel to move them, and they probably don't have far to go. Chalk it up to production tolerances???

Ye Karma, that's sort of what i've done already, then it started playing on my mind so i thought i'd ask the dudes on 3WW, it's 00:30 here in the UK, so am of to my scratcher, i'll have another look at it tomorrow, thanks to you and DC for taking the time out to reply.

Cheers,

G.

[250rfan]

Gordon, is this an OEM or aftermarket carrier? What its sounding to me like is either:

A: The bearings are a slightly different width then original ones, causing the spacing issues with the inner support tube.

B: The carrier, if its aftermarket, has the bottoming out area for the bearings to press into, slightly "to deep". If that makes sense.

Hey Billy,

Okay, the Carrier is NEW Honda OEM.

I cannot remember the bearing size but its something like RS6003 or something.

I should have 4 old ones in the bin (trash can), i'll fish them out tomorrow and double check i've fitted the right ones.

[Billy Golightly]

I've not ever seen this happen with an OEM carrier. It is known to happen with Aftermarket ones though which is kinda why I asked. Not really sure what else it could be man. You might need to just chuck up that inner tube and shorten it down a bit to get the right fit between the 2 bearings.

[RoscoW]

Hey Gordon
Any Chance the tubes could be from an 85, Bike bandit shows the 85's did not use the washers but the 86 does, calls for a different part # for each year. Could be the bearings were only set in to the spacer tube and washers and never fully seated on the OD. Is the tube by itself the correct length? Would it work with one washer or no washers just the spacer tube?

Ross..

[Daddio]

Are the bearings oem or aftermarket? A few years back when 1upfront rebuilt his 300r he got some aftermarket bearings for his carrier and had the opposite problem. His was too loose so he got oem and everything worked fine. He has never used aftermarket bearings since.

[MyMistress86R]

Shortly after I got my 86R, I needed to do new bearings as well. OEM carrier and installed new OEM bearings. When I pulled it apart, I had the tube, but no spacers/washers to speak of, so I assembled it back the same way. In both cases, I had no problems at all with fit or spacing.

With that being said, I have to agree with DC that I wasn't even aware that spacers/washers were required. I'd try just the tube and see what you get.

[Kintore]

Yah Im in there boat, I didnt know spacers/washers were suppose to do used either.