Always finding new and exciting ways to not give a hoot in hell
Catch me if you can
From what I can remember back when I was dickin around with upping the electrical output of the ignition on my 500R setup, the ignition coil on the stator end was infact AC current, which is what made the fact that the battery worked seem that much odder to me.
Power User
Roostin Away
Okay kids in the computer age you can find out anything you want to if you just try. Just search it on a thing called google. This is what I found. I already knew this but this will probably be more interesting to you because it has.
Now read this and come back and discuss what you have learned.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternator
Appalachian American Racing
the home of
Appalachian American Engineering
"Can't", never could do nothing
There's nothing like the sound of screaming 2strokes and the smell of race gas in the air
At The Back Of The Pack
Arm chair racerAt the back of the pack
OMG! Whoever posted the diagrams, thank you! That is truly inspiring. Oh, I See it was LEO... GO LEO!
The 200X as anyone can now see does NOT have a rectifier AND the stator DIRECTLY hooks to the lights and voltage regulator. The regulator simply sends some of the volts to ground if its over say 14 volts to keep it constant. The stator is connected directly to the lights which makes it CLEARLY AC.... THANK YOU!
If you look at the 250ES you will see a voltage regulator rectifier... this converts ac to DC and regulates the amount.... thus the battery and electric start.....
Blown - was it on high beams or low beams? That could make A difference.... but Im not sure what the low beam output is. Did you check your voltage while you revved up the engine? If so, what did it go up to? Im curious now too... Hey - did you check the voltage with the headlight plugged in and on? That would show a big draw on the system and could definately lower the voltage you are seeing.... not giving you the actual output. If you did you could unplug the headlight completely and check the voltage at the connector.....
As far as the O-Scope... go ahead - I think that everyone could benefit from knowing the actual sine wave pattern....and cycles. If properly used you will find the AC Sine Wave at about 60Hz
Also Mr DB again... u know what? I wrote a whole paragraph about you, then realized you arent worth the words....Ill summarize it for you "*EDIT* OFF" and you have no idea what you are even talking about.....
Last edited by Mrs.Mosh; 10-25-2008 at 09:26 AM.
1984 Honda ATC 250r
Bored .020 over Wiseco, Answer silencer, fresh motor, New connecting rod and balanced crank, Boyesen 2 stage power reeds
At The Back Of The Pack
Arm chair racerAt the back of the pack
Thanks Ripper!Originally Posted by tri-Z ripper
I feel that in the end everyone will benefit from this... dont you?
All I wanted to do was share my findings and got ripped on immediately...... its kinda *EDITED* up that I post an informational post with real "science" lol and get debated as to what my volt meter said, lol...... the damn thing doesnt lie.....lol
Last edited by Mrs.Mosh; 10-25-2008 at 09:27 AM.
1984 Honda ATC 250r
Bored .020 over Wiseco, Answer silencer, fresh motor, New connecting rod and balanced crank, Boyesen 2 stage power reeds
Power User
Roostin Away
Roger, do you have a manual for any of these machines that you are referring to?Thanks Ripper!
I feel that in the end everyone will benefit from this... dont you?
All I wanted to do was share my findings and got ripped on immediately...... its kinda *EDITED* up that I post an informational post with real "science" lol and get debated as to what my volt meter said, lol...... the damn thing doesnt lie.....lolIf you do you might want to read the electrical section. If you don't have one you might want to get one.
The one I have for the 81-84 250Rs claims that they have a rectifier even though I couldn't find it in any of the schematics. Maybe my manual is wrong but I don't think it is.
Last edited by Daddio; 10-25-2008 at 03:33 PM.
Appalachian American Racing
the home of
Appalachian American Engineering
"Can't", never could do nothing
At The Back Of The Pack
Arm chair racerAt the back of the pack
I do infact have the Official Honda Shop Manual for the 81-84 250R, 86/87 200X and the 84-86 200S.
I read the through all of the electrical sections twice and seen no mention of a rectifier at all. I did see a regulator though.... are you certain you didnt see regulator?
If you did see rectifier could you tell me in what section and subsection of the manual?
I looked extensively at the wiring diagrams before even measuring the voltage... but I looked at them again a few times today...
I really dont see it mentioned anywhere.....
Im anxious for the guy with the O-Scope to get his finding on here so the disbelievers can eat it......
Roger
1984 Honda ATC 250r
Bored .020 over Wiseco, Answer silencer, fresh motor, New connecting rod and balanced crank, Boyesen 2 stage power reeds
At The Back Of The Pack
Arm chair racerAt the back of the pack
If you would like a copy of the official honda manual I can either send it to you or show you where to get it free.... If you dont have the honda one anyays....
thought Id offer
1984 Honda ATC 250r
Bored .020 over Wiseco, Answer silencer, fresh motor, New connecting rod and balanced crank, Boyesen 2 stage power reeds
Power User
Roostin Away
I actually have the "Official Honda Shop Manual". It is very vague in certain areas, this appears to be one. The manual that talks about the rectifier is actually a Clymer Service / Repair/ Maintenance Manual. It actually goes into more detail than the Honda shop manual in this area. I have no way to scan this book but I may be able to talk my daughter into scanning some of it for me tomorrow. I am pretty sure she has a flatbed scanner.
It is in chapter seven page 131.
CAPACITOR DISCHARGE IGNITION
Appalachian American Racing
the home of
Appalachian American Engineering
"Can't", never could do nothing
Always finding new and exciting ways to not give a hoot in hell
Catch me if you can
This post is worthy of the mad scientists lair I think. Gonna move it there now.
Power User
Roostin Away
Here is the page in question. I talked to my daughter and she said that her old scanner won't work with vista so she couldn't scan it. So I took a picture of it with my digital camera. I guess it will work. I could do more later if you would like.
Appalachian American Racing
the home of
Appalachian American Engineering
"Can't", never could do nothing
At The Back Of The Pack
Arm chair racerAt the back of the pack
Found this on wikipedia:
AC-CDI - The AC-CDI module obtains its electricity source solely from the alternating current produced by the alternator. The AC-CDI system is the most basic CDI system which is widely used in small engines.
DC-CDI - The DC-CDI module is powered by the battery, and therefore an additional DC/AC inverter circuit is included in the CDI module to raise the 12 V DC to 400-600 V DC, making the CDI module slightly larger. However, vehicles that use DC-CDI systems have more precise ignition timing and the engine can be started more easily when cold.
I also see in the wiring diagram that the lights are run off a seperate wire from the stator than the CDI. Even IF the CDI did have a rectifier in it and the coil was DC driven the lights would still be DC as they are not connected to the CDI unit. I am going to have to go ahead and say that that manual is just wrong on the rectifier part. A rectifier cannot provide a strong enough output to run an ignition system without a battery - the same reason lights cannot be run off of a rectifier directly without some sort of battery. The rectifier will prematurely burn out.
In conclusion, Im gonna have to say that the lights still are AC even IF the cdi did rectify the coil voltage - but I would bet $100 that that is not the case and that the coil is in fact AC driven as well.
Roger
1984 Honda ATC 250r
Bored .020 over Wiseco, Answer silencer, fresh motor, New connecting rod and balanced crank, Boyesen 2 stage power reeds
First Time Rider
Arm chair racerNew to the board
I just look at the number on my headlight or tail light bulb and go to the parts store and buy a matching one. But the world is full of useless knowledge. and people that are passionate about it. Kewl.
At The Back Of The Pack
Arm chair racerAt the back of the pack
lol.... the world is also full of sheep who just follow in line and dont wonder why or how anything works - like thoughtless zombies working at McDonalds...... its a shame that so many people just dont want to know the why, the how, or the reason that things work or exist - no spark of curiosity, no creativity or logic....... what a shame that this world is devolving like this.
Before technology came this far people had to understand everything about a car to fix the problems with it, now its all forums and google and no thought or troubleshooting on their own.... Its too bad people turn lazy instead of challenging themselves... I guess its easier to rely on others than yourself....
1984 Honda ATC 250r
Bored .020 over Wiseco, Answer silencer, fresh motor, New connecting rod and balanced crank, Boyesen 2 stage power reeds
Power User
Roostin Away
Here is the whole chapter on the electrical system. Some of you may find it helpful if you are having electrical issues.
Last edited by Daddio; 10-27-2008 at 09:41 PM.
Appalachian American Racing
the home of
Appalachian American Engineering
"Can't", never could do nothing
First Time Rider
Arm chair racerNew to the board
Understanding how to diagnose a problem if one exists is one thing. Dwelling on things that are not an issue or problem is another thing entirely. Honda ATC electrical systems have proven to be quite reliable and worry free. Most issues are related to a poor connection. I have no issues with the info in this thread. Just how animated people get over it. I certainly have no need to know how an Epilady works, how diodes are made, or how they determined when to turn on the street lights to have a rich and rewarding life.
Reply With Quote
