1922 south bend 9'' lathe restore ......New stuff

[SWIGIN]

i picked this nice little lathe up the other day and aready started on cleaning it up and repainting it and polishing some parts.

its in REAL good shape for any age lathe but especially for a 1922 , other then the 20 coats of paint and all the oil it is super tight...no play what so ever.

most of the ware points still have machine marks in them from when it was built

once i get done with it and get it all hooked up i wont have to bug HRE all the time to use his lathes.

[250RNUT]

I wonder how many warbird parts it built

[honda250sx]

Nice. I have TONS of old info on Southys. You can probably get that serial number off the way and actually find out who, where and when it was purchased. PM me Wayne I will let you know how. I have some wicked cool charts on those as well.

[SWIGIN]

sweet, pm is on the way

[SWIGIN]

i just showed the lathe pics to HRE, he said i need to scrap off the blue paint and paint it grey....lol

[honda250sx]

Wayne what you have here is a 9" workshop lathe. For many model and experimental engineers the definitive South Bend lathe is the 9-inch "Workshop" Precision backgeared and screwcutting model. Designed and first manufactured in 1933 it was announced in January 1934 as the "Model 5" with a single, basic specification of screwcutting by (20DP) changewheels and hand-cross feed. This first model had virtually nothing in common with either of the earlier, cheaper South Bend lathes, the 8" and 9" Junior models, and was most commonly listed using the catalog number "405" - the "4" referring to a lathe intended to be driven by bench-mounted countershaft. The earliest mention of the lathe so far discovered comes in a January 1934 works pamphlet that provided examples of advertisements available for dealers to use in to their local press - should you have an earlier mention the writer would be very interested to hear from you. More details of these very early 9-inch lathes, and their supporting literature, can be found here. Although a perfectly functional lathe the first model did have some shortcomings that were fully addressed by the manufacturer through an interim model (listed as the 415) manufactured from around September 1935 until the 1938/9 and the introduction of a new range consisting of "A", "B" and "C" versions - the latter with changewheels and hand cross feed and very similar to the 415. However, even as the lathe developed, by as early as 1935 the makers were boasting of "Ten New Features" - though it has to be said that polishing the rims of the carriage and tailstock handwheels was allowed to account for two of them. The catalogue for November 1936 lists the 415 as the "New 1936 Workshop" - though even at this date it still retained a changewheel cover complete with the first type of (405) threading chart - but transposed from front to end face. The Model 5 (Type 405) and its development is covered in detail on these pages.
Taking account of the hard economic times of the 1930s the Model 5 was engineered to sell at a price that would appeal to the amateur and, in view of the fact that it would probably not be used for very heavy-duty work, constructed from comparatively light castings in comparison with other models in the range; however South Bend, it seems, were prepared to sacrifice nothing in the way of quality of fit and finish and the Model 5 and subsequent versions were very well built. The makers boasted in early advertising literature that the lathe was: "built entirely of steel, cast iron and malleable iron ….. No die cast metal is used." - the latter reference being a dig at Atlas with their mass-produced 9-inch lathe.
With its excellent materials ands sound construction the lathe found a ready market. The hole through the headstock spindle was 3/4" - although a few (much later) lathes have been found (in England) fitted with a modified headstock from the 10-inch lathe, complete with the huge 13/8" bore spindle. The headstock bearings were lubricated at first directly through top-mounted, spring-cap Gits-brand oilers with a feed passed onto filter felts, held within a groove, from where it dribbled downwards, hopefully less any dirt.. After 1936 the oil cups, with dip wicks, were used; these allowed the operator to fill them at the beginning of a job and check when more was required. In 1938 the lathe was given even better protection from forgetful owners with oil fed through spring-loaded wicks from reservoirs built into the lower part of each bearing column (as on larger South Bend lathes) with Mobil Velocite 10 oil as a suitable and recommended modern equivalent to the original lubricant. The felt wicks were designed to deliver oil upwards - minus any dirt which may have worked its way in - by capillary action. Should you remove the spindle a problem arises: the felts pop up into the space created and prevented it from being replaced. The solution? If each "elbow" oiler is turned through 90 degrees a small hole is revealed, bored horizontally through the casting, designed to accept a length of stiff wire to hold the felt down whilst the spindle is replaced. A word on wicks: the felt used needs to be dense - it has to transmit the oil by capillary action, regulate the flow whilst also acting to filter out any dirt. Industrial-grade felts in various sections and thicknesses are still available from engineering supply companies and it pays to look out the correct type, not a household grade.
Originally described as both the Model 9-inch "Workshop" Lathe and the 9-inch "Workshop" Precision Lathe, by the end of World War Two (in 1945) the marketing department must have considered the term "Workshop" to be "down-market" and it was dropped from the catalogues and the single description "Precision" used instead. The words "Precision" and "Toolroom" were freely used by South Bend throughout their catalogs for many years to indicate specifications and equipment levels - rather than any intrinsic merit, or mechanical superiority over other lathes in their range. In general terms (and depending upon the particular size of machine) a "Toolroom" lathe would have had a taper turning attachment, a collet storage board, a collet draw bar for the spindle (and just a single collet) supplied as part of its standard equipment.
On its introduction the 405 -"Workshop" was available in eight "models" and four different bed lengths of 3 feet (model 15-YB), 3.5 feet (model 15-ZB), 4 feet (model 15-AB) and (very rarely) 4.5 feet (model 15-RB). These gave, respectively, between centres' capacities of 17", 23", 29" and 35"; the mechanical specification of the lathes' main components was identical, the only differences being in their ancillary equipment - the term "Model" being stretched to include numerous combinations of drive systems and stands.
The basic lathe was supplied without a countershaft unit, or motor, and was priced, on its introduction, at $75 for the shortest-bed, 18"-between-centres version to $116 for the longest, 30-inch capacity model. Other, more expensive options were available, including ones where the lathe was supplied complete on an underdrive stand with either a plain "Simplex" or "adjustable" countershaft fitted with an electric motor and reversing switch - and ready to run. The "plain" countershaft suffered from the disadvantage of having no provision to adjust the belt tension to ease the change from one speed to another - although both the motor and the base of the countershaft were slotted to allow initial belt tensions to be set; with these countershafts changing speeds meant having to "roll" the belt from one pulley to another a method common at the time but still inconvenient.
The adjustable countershaft had a cast-iron upright hinged to a stout baseplate with an over-centre lever to set and lock the angle between them. The lever allowed the belt tension to be released instantly and the belt moved easily from pulley to pulley; this countershaft could also be supplied with a 4-step V belt drive for which, of course, a much greater release of tension was needed to allow the V belt to be moved out of its deep groove. Another advantage of the adjustable countershaft was that it allowed variations in belt tension between different grooves on the pulleys (which is often present - and increases with wear) to be removed by making a small adjustment to the left-hand/right-hand threaded turnbuckle between the two halves of the tensioning rod. The plain-countershaft lathe, in short-bed form and ready to run, was priced at a total of $98.25 whilst the much more desirable model with an adjustable-countershaft was only an additional $5 - which probably explains why most 9-inch "Workshop" lathes are found today with that fitting.
The most expensive "ordinary" 9-inch Workshop lathe during 1934 and 1935 was the 4-speed V-belt drive long-bed model at $154; however, during the following year (1936) a "Toolroom" version was introduced, complete with a hand-wheel activated draw-in collet chuck (with one collet of any size from the range), a taper-turning unit, micrometer-carriage stop, thread-cutting stop for the cross slide and a collet tray held on a supporting bracket which was clamped down over the back V of the lathe bed. This machine, with a 4-speed V-belt countershaft drive and hardened headstock spindle, retailed for $205.25 in the shortest bed length - and $246.25 in the longest.

Phew...

[SWIGIN]

nice info...i did a google search and found out they started making lathes in 1906 and starting in 1910-1947 the serial numbers were how many were built....but they started with first one at #700.

so up till 1947 if you subtract 700 from your serial number thats where your lathe falls into the run.

if this is true mine is the 26,592 lathe built since 1910.

[honda250sx]

They also built this in a "Precision Toolroom Model" which was different from the toolroom model in the aspect that it had a quickchange gearbox. I'd give my first born, left nut, and right leg for that lathe. It had EVERYTHING a benchtop could ever need. It was truly a masterpiece. There is no finer manual lathe that was AMERICAN made. Your atlas,logan,etc's dont even compare.

[honda250sx]

Call southy they should have a capability to tell you WHO bought that dinosaur! I mean it was probably the distant relative of tricerotops. Get yourself some MACHINE GREY paint, and get to work.

DIRTCRASHER has one even older. And his looks really nice. Of couse he has some serious time in making it the way it is now. He to loves the southy's. HE NEEDS A HEAVY TEN though!

A heavy ten southbend and a well equipped bridgeport and you can't be stopped!

[honda250sx]

You probably stole this thing didn't ya?

Can I ask what you paid? Looks to be in awesome shape with a little lovin.

[SWIGIN]

great......2 votes for battle ship grey...lol

[SWIGIN]

You probably stole this thing didn't ya?

Can I ask what you paid? Looks to be in awesome shape with a little lovin.

my buddy bought it maybe 4 years ago for like $350 and added the quick change tool rest and a nice set of those triangle tiped tools....so he had like $550 in it.

i traded my .40cal pistol for it that i had about $450 in.

HRE has 4 lathes 2 are south bends....ones about like mine but its newer with the quick change tranny thing and the other one is smaller and looks about as old as mine if not older.

i use his tiny southie more then his larger newer lathe but now i got one....cant wait till it's done.

[honda250sx]

Well you deserve to own one. Id trade a firearm anyday for one. Guns are cool. Shooting gets old. Shooting for tenths of a thousandth, now I do that all day!

[Dirtcrasher]

Looks nice SWIGIN!! Mine is supposedly a 1928.







I used oil based Rustoleum machine grey and it's help up very well.

I wish I had the legs for it!! Got for 100$ off the WantAd.

Like Jeff said, I need a heavy 10 - the large spindle thru hole and quick change gear box rule!!

[The Goat]

Guys I wouldn't know how to begin to use it,and prolly wouldn't after staring for a few hours... But those are working masterpieces.

Bravo for the restore. Swigin I'd go with black. Then again near everything I own is dark.

The blue doesn't look bad, but it reminds me of those cheap northern presses too much.

Is powder impractical?