Question for more experienced offroad riders

[atcrider1]

on my 350x i rarely use the clutch to up shift, but i use it when down shifting a few gears

[Dirtcrasher]

I use my clutch about 75% of the time.

Sometimes your body is not in a position to shift but you need to gain or lose a gear, thats when I just shift it without the clutch.

Each gear basically has 3 or more positions (depending on the holes in the gears) in which it can engage when the shifter is lifted, the drum turns and the fork tries to slide it over. The clutch gives it just the gear dogs the opportunity to engage without jamming.

And whether it's upshifting or downshifting, both are engaging a gear and there is either engine power or the speed of the rear wheels challenging it to engage smoothly.

Thats MY theory anyhow

[fabiodriven]

As a truck driver/mechanic/street-dirt rider I do know a thing or two about all this. It is true that most truck drivers do not use the clutch to shift. That is the proper way of shifting a truck with a non-synchronised transmission. A trike can be shifted the same way, but it was not designed for that. Shifting every now and then without the clutch if you use the throttle right is not going to hurt anything. "Powershifting", or just jamming gears will hurt stuff, and probably pretty fast. I really see no need for not using the clutch unless you're in an awkward situation where you just can't grab it. If you're just riding regularly there really is no reason for not using it. In a drag race there really isn't going to any benefit because you will actually have to back off the throttle to "line up" the gears. I just open the throttle, touch the clutch, and shift, never letting off the gas (Right ?) .

All in all, just use it whenever you can, that's what it's there for.

As for the wearing of the clutch basket thing, the only worn clutch basket I ever saw was on an 84 250R and it was worn from old age and USING the clutch, not from NOT USING the clutch. There were grooves in the basket where the plates slide back and forth when engaging and disengaging the clutch. I have never seen a clutch component wear out after not being used. I have seen a Peterbilt go 400+ thousand miles on the factory clutch because the only time it gets used is starting from a stand-still. After that, it never gets touched.

[ironchop]

Clutches do NOT translate into damage-free shifting....they may help if used properly however, improperly using a clutch under throttle load can cause damage as well as hard shifting

also, the clutch reduces the shock to the gear dogs on the side of the gears as well as the shift forks themselves...but mis-use can damage the gear teeth as well as the load on the clutch basket just as Fabio pointed out

a few manufacturers realized this utilizing rubber shock isolators inside clutch baskets or inside the rear wheel hub...Triumph being just one example...I know from years of experience that using a non-isolated belt drive conversion on those street-ridden machines as well as AHRMA race bikes i`ve wrenched translates into a trashed gearset wether you use the clutch all the time or not....many Brit bikes use a similar setup to isolayte the shock and Brit manufacturers were not the only ones to follow suit

drivetrain shock is inevitable and shock=damage....clutches exponentially reduce drivetrain shock and give the gearsets a longer life expectancy... however, improperly executed shifts ( clutch or no clutch) will damage stuff

if one thinks that repeated dumping the clutch when the gate drops in a race or recreational riding will not ultimately damage the gears, you are mislead

if clutches prevented the initial shock to the drivetrain with slippage under throttle, then nobody could spin a tire on take-off

a clutch does LESSEN the the shock to the drivetrain but will not prevent it unless you baby the machine all the time

all a clutch does is remove the torque load from the crank on the gearset...keep in mind that torque loads also come from the other end of the machine...the rear wheel(s)...As in the case of downshifting to slow the machine down or letting off the throttle in gear, one would have to pull the clutch in while deccelerating in gear to offset this shock should they be that worried about damage

while I won`t argue that dmage could occur from improperly hard-shifting, I emphasize that I have rebuilt more than a handful transmissions that were trashed purely from improper treatment while using the clutch..."snapping" the clutch lever under acceleration....as when you stay on the throttle while shifting, the RPMs shoot up and you engage a transmission that is spinning slower than the crankshaft is...and that causes shock to the entire drivetrain

on a side note, I have read the term "wannabe" thrown around twice in this thread...disturbing that a guy can`t post an opinion w/o qualifying the statement by accusing others who may not use the same riding methods as a "wannabe"

the question posted asked if it were possible to shift w/o clutch on an off-road machine w/o damaging a gearset... done correctly,and using only my own personal experiences, I belive it entirely possible..however, I don`t try and qualify my opinion by saying that those who can`t seem to get the job done w/o a clutch lever are [insert derogatory term here]...while I didn`t take the term to be a personal attack I just think if one firmly believes in his/her own opinion, then one needs not qualify the statement by bashing the opposition.

it would be nice to see an opinion thread here for once NOT deteriorate into mudslinging, name calling, and chest pounding

so.....I`m with Louis....if it bothers you, then use the lever all the time

enough said

[Billy Golightly]

Clutches do NOT translate into damage-free shifting....they may help if used properly however, improperly using a clutch under throttle load can cause damage as well as hard shifting

also, the clutch reduces the shock to the gear dogs on the side of the gears as well as the shift forks themselves...but mis-use can damage the gear teeth as well as the load on the clutch basket just as Fabio pointed out

a few manufacturers realized this utilizing rubber shock isolators inside clutch baskets or inside the rear wheel hub...Triumph being just one example...I know from years of experience that using a non-isolated belt drive conversion on those street-ridden machines as well as AHRMA race bikes i`ve wrenched translates into a trashed gearset wether you use the clutch all the time or not....many Brit bikes use a similar setup to isolayte the shock and Brit manufacturers were not the only ones to follow suit

drivetrain shock is inevitable and shock=damage....clutches exponentially reduce drivetrain shock and give the gearsets a longer life expectancy... however, improperly executed shifts ( clutch or no clutch) will damage stuff

if one thinks that repeated dumping the clutch when the gate drops in a race or recreational riding will not ultimately damage the gears, you are mislead

if clutches prevented the initial shock to the drivetrain with slippage under throttle, then nobody could spin a tire on take-off

a clutch does LESSEN the the shock to the drivetrain but will not prevent it unless you baby the machine all the time

all a clutch does is remove the torque load from the crank on the gearset...keep in mind that torque loads also come from the other end of the machine...the rear wheel(s)...As in the case of downshifting to slow the machine down or letting off the throttle in gear, one would have to pull the clutch in while deccelerating in gear to offset this shock should they be that worried about damage

while I won`t argue that dmage could occur from improperly hard-shifting, I emphasize that I have rebuilt more than a handful transmissions that were trashed purely from improper treatment while using the clutch..."snapping" the clutch lever under acceleration....as when you stay on the throttle while shifting, the RPMs shoot up and you engage a transmission that is spinning slower than the crankshaft is...and that causes shock to the entire drivetrain

on a side note, I have read the term "wannabe" thrown around twice in this thread...disturbing that a guy can`t post an opinion w/o qualifying the statement by accusing others who may not use the same riding methods as a "wannabe"

the question posted asked if it were possible to shift w/o clutch on an off-road machine w/o damaging a gearset... done correctly,and using only my own personal experiences, I belive it entirely possible..however, I don`t try and qualify my opinion by saying that those who can`t seem to get the job done w/o a clutch lever are [insert derogatory term here]...while I didn`t take the term to be a personal attack I just think if one firmly believes in his/her own opinion, then one needs not qualify the statement by bashing the opposition.

it would be nice to see an opinion thread here for once NOT deteriorate into mudslinging, name calling, and chest pounding

so.....I`m with Louis....if it bothers you, then use the lever all the time

enough said

Quality post, that I agree with. Thumbs up.

[oscarmayer]

maybe they are running a clutchless trans like a the 110-200s series. the 200x and up use a clutch. maybe their gearboxes don't require them. jsut a thought since type was not mentioned.

[Russell 350X]

The only time I don't use my clutch is when I'm just cruising down a fire road, not high RPM's, just babying it along. Thats on my 350X. Havent done it on the Tri-Z. I shift my S-10 without the clutch I bet 85% of the time. Just have to know your engine and tranny. One ex-quad racer I talked to said he never used his clutch, only during the holeshot. That was on a TRX250R/450R hybrid.

[The Goat]

maybe they are running a clutchless trans like a the 110-200s series. the 200x and up use a clutch. maybe their gearboxes don't require them. jsut a thought since type was not mentioned.

the clutch is activated by your foot in those bikes...

just like the new conversions for the 450s if I'm not mistaken.

[JohnR.]

If that were true it'd stall out when you stop in gear. Those bikes have a certain amount of slip built into the clutch that allows you to stop while in gear without using the clutch.

John

[fabiodriven]

If that were true it'd stall out when you stop in gear. Those bikes have a certain amount of slip built into the clutch that allows you to stop while in gear without using the clutch.

John

Actually, it is true. There is a mechanism that engages the clutch when you shift, the Goat is %100 correct.

I don't know about Honda's, but I worked on a Yamaha that had both a centrifigal (SP?) clutch and a regular "plate" type clutch. The centrifigal clutch allows you to idle in gear and the "plate" clutch engaged when you shift.

If the clutch were allowed to sit there and slip, it would heat up and you'd smoke it in no time flat.

[JohnR.]

Ahh. I see.