Another Hair brain 200MX idea... (Please help me stop!)

[oscarmayer]

ok a few updates:
custom done 350x and rear shock is nearly done.
We will be replacing the 350X swinger bearings with Delrin. We will be cutting the swinger and aligning it to the CR case like the CR swinger is.
We will also be upgrading swing arm pivot with the new 350X kit and also the main down tube.

[onformula1]

I am jealous this thing is going to be a mini 250R, with modern technology and big time power in a tiny little package.

Post some before tear down pics of the trike & bike so we have something to compare to later.

[barnett468]

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no clue. but it will fit int he 200X frame and weight less than the R. it stock has the same HP as the 250r. with a few tweaks no porting it will put down over 40hp. i say it could give the 250r on a mx track a run for it's $.

Sounds like a fun project and I have never seen a 125 2 stroke three wheeler so I would think it will certainly get at least some people’s attention, unfortunately, it will not keep up with a bigger displacement engine of the same hp . . This is simply because torque is what propels the bike and the difference in torque between the two is substantial, but nonetheless, I’m sure it will be a blast to ride, which at least to me would be the most important thing, and I could care less how many 250’s might pass me up because I'd be havin fun.

[onformula1]

^^ Well, it may or not be 125cc, add in the 50 lbs. weight advantage, plus 7HP or over a stock 250R and a good rider.

Remember the 200's that beat or kept up with the 250R?

125 vs. 500, equal riders (Or close) Not a 250, but a 500cc! On a wide open track at that.

http://racerxonline.com/2013/09/26/t...3-johnny-omara

http://www.mxgp.com/news/maggiora-welcomes-johnny-omara

I am not guaranteeing a win, but it will be closer than many will bet.

I feel great about the odds.

Plus how much fun is going mainstream?

This is a trike to teach Mike's son, Austin how to race motocross on a similar machine (96cc 2 stroke)

Ever been smoked by a 125 on a 250? Thank You very much Jimmy Lewis & Ty Davis!!!... Still recovering.

I understand where you are coming from, but I like to break the rules! (Not on this forum, mods)

There is no replacement for displacement unless you compare 1986 technology to 2015 technology, then it gets much closer.

Nothing against you, Sir

But we shall have some fun!

[barnett468]

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^^ Well, it may or not be 125cc, add in the 50 lbs. weight advantage, plus 7HP or over a stock 250R and a good rider.

BTW the cr125 idea is courtesy of Onformula1. …it stock has the same HP as the 250r.

…with the smaller engine and loosing some of the other stuff, we will loose about 20 or so lbs. hoping for maybe 30 if we work at it some. But we are also adding by moving to the 350X swinger and fork/triple setup.

My comment was regarding a 125 cc displacement against a 250 of equal hp because oscarmayer said it would be a 125 . . He also said the weight difference might be 20-30 lbs by the time he added the heavier 350x front and rear suspension..

You are correct that it would take a good rider to even have a chance against a 250 because the 125’s are hard enough to keep on the power band when they are in a motorcycle chassis, so when you add another 50 lbs, plus increase the traction, it will be even harder to keep on the power band and will be far easier to kill the engine when braking with it in gear.

Remember the 200's that beat or kept up with the 250R?

No, however, I have ridden several 200's also, including the Kawasaki KDX200 which I did some of the development testing on, so I have some sense of how they compare to 250's too.

125 vs. 500, equal riders (Or close) Not a 250, but a 500cc! On a wide open track at that.

http://racerxonline.com/2013/09/26/t...3-johnny-omara

http://www.mxgp.com/news/maggiora-welcomes-johnny-omara

Of course there are occasionally exceptions to the rules, however, picking out two isolated incidents certainly doesn’t mean much because the preponderance of the evidence proves that in most cases, a 250 will beat a 125 . . The Kawasaki race team had literally thousands of lap times on the riders . . They had lap times on Jeff Ward on both the 125’s and 250’s on the same track and exact same conditions, and his lap times were never faster or even the same on a 125 as they were on the 250 . . Same thing with Eddie Warren whom Team Green borrowed me for to wrench on his bike and one of the mini riders bikes at the Ponca City and Loretta Lynn Amateur Nationals . . Harry Klemm went along also and was "testing" the rental car with me and two others in it, lol.

I am not guaranteeing a win, but it will be closer than many will bet.

I raced 125, 250 and Open Pro Motocross class for a few years, so I have a fairly good idea of what will happen, however, it’s a moot point since oscarmayer is going to build it anyway, therefore, if it were mine, I wouldn’t worry about whether it will beat a 250 or not, and I wouldn’t be unhappy in the least if it doesn’t so I hope he won't be either.

Also, at the very least, I for one would love to see a race between two top riders and a 125 and 250 3 wheeler . . I saw a big “Run what you brung.” race at Anaheim Stadium around 1977 with all the top riders and Marty Smith rode a 125 and that was a blast to watch.

Plus how much fun is going mainstream?

I understand where you are coming from, but I like to break the rules!

I agree to some extent, and do like the odd and unusual, however, engine swaps are not all that unusual, and installing a smaller engine in a bike, doesn't really seem like very much "rule breaking" to me, although, as I previously mentioned, I think it's a cool project . . Engine swaps have been going on as early as the 50’s when guys would pull a 6 cyl engine out of their car and install a twin carb flat head V8 . . There also seem to be a fair amount of ATC 90’s or 110’s that have been converted to a Chinese 160 or something like that . . As far as motorcycle engine swaps go, Dave Miller is probably one of the best known, and is probably most famous for his “Penda”, which was a 125cc Penton with a CR125 engine which he used to race . . He also put a V twin engine in a Bonanza mini bike, lol . . Heck, even Rupp Mini Bikes had a 2 speed, 5 hp, 50 mph, street legal, full suspension, disc brake model way back in 1968 . . I actually rode one and maxed it out and it was a bit scary.

As far as not going mainstream, I thought some of the following might be interesting . . Although none of it is earth shattering, some was certainly novel, and some of it is things people don’t hear about because it’s all behind the scenes factory prototype stuff, some of which was used in production.

When I worked for Kawi, in 1984, one project engineer built a 4 wheeler using a KLT 250 engine, and it had 4 wheel independent suspension with 4 wheel steering . . He also did a partial design of a 4 wheel drive, enclosed cab over, stake bed mini truck . . I did part of the chassis design and all the 4 wheel drive design which I nade as kind of a “shift on the fly" unit, and I built a lot of the vehicle . . I stole the shift lever off of a Suzuki quad I had there for comparison testing against another vehicle we made.

I also designed and fabricated a lot of things for the watercraft department because there wasn’t an engineer for it in the US R and D department, so everything we did on the US side was farmed out to engineers we would hire on a temporary basis . . One of the more unusual and innovative things we did which did make it into production, was the single handle steering with a trigger for the throttle which is used on the Jet Mate boat . . The original concept was thought of by the department supervisor and I worked on some of the design but the original concept was for a short handle which I could have made work with electric servos, but in the end, Kawai Japan decided that method was too expensive and simply made a 2 1/2' long stick so there would be enough leverage to move it.

I was also asked to designed and built a steering wheel that would slide from one side of the boat to the other so one could switch drivers without getting out . . I made a spring loaded, tapered pin, with a knob on the bottom to lock it in place which could easily be pulled down around 3/4” to release it which would allow it to lock in the left, center, and right positions . . I also used a Steering column from a 1978 Corvette so it also had a tilt and telescoping wheel, lol.

For another project, they asked me to stuff a new 3 cylinder, 90 hp, snowmobile engine into a standard jet ski . . We tested it at Lake Elsinore.

I even answered a few of oscarmayers questions on his Baja bike thread and offered a few suggestions, and I see he is using at least two of them, so I’m glad I could be of at least some help to him and wish him well on that project too.

This is a trike to teach Mike's son, Austin how to race motocross on a similar machine (96cc 2 stroke)

Should be fun, and even if it does turn out to be a little too hard for him to ride because of the type of type of power it will have, the engine can easily be modified to have a bit more bottom end.

Ever been smoked by a 125 on a 250? Thank You very much Jimmy Lewis & Ty Davis!!!... Still recovering.

No.

There is no replacement for displacement unless you compare 1986 technology to 2015 technology, then it gets much closer.

I'm confused, I don't know why are you comparing 1986 technology with 2015 technology when the engine is a 1991 . . Also, I'm not aware of much 2015 technology that you could apply to that engine other then the MSD multi spark ignition box with programmable timing that I suggested oscarmayer could use on his Baja bike which would give his Baja bike more power, and there is computer controlled fuel injection.

Nothing against you, Sir But we shall have some fun!

Well, I should certainly hope so, and since it is an easy project, it should go without any major hiccups, and although there doesn't seem to be many people interested in it here for some reason, I for one am, and look forward to some photos if oscarmayer decides to post some.
.

[onformula1]

^Well, I prefer not to cut up your above post and argue with each and every issue and hurt Mike's build or take away the fun from supportive forum members.

I would like to thank the many sponsors on this project that have gone above and beyond to help us with this project and other projects.

Also, I would like to thank the many forum members that have supported our crazy ideas with phone calls, emails, posts and PM's.

[barnett468]

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^Well, I prefer not to cut up your above post and argue with each and every issue and hurt Mike's build...

I don't see how you can, or would want to, argue with someone’s personal experience and the facts they have observed since you were not there with them when they experienced them . . Your personal experience may be different than mine and/or others, therefore, I wouldn’t argue with yours for the same reasons I mentioned.

...or take away the fun from supportive forum members.

imo, most people would interpret my quotes below as showing support and interest in his project and your comment implies that I do not, so I just wanted to clarify this fact so people don’t get the idea from your post that I am in ANY way telling him it is a useless/worthless idea etc, because I am not, however, if you interpret them otherwise, I hope this will clarify my opinion for you.


From post 18

Sounds like a fun project and I have never seen a 125 2 stroke three wheeler so I would think it will certainly get at least some people’s attention…

… I’m sure it will be a blast to ride…

… I'd be havin fun.

From post 20

Should be fun…

…although there doesn't seem to be many people interested in it here for some reason, I for one am, and look forward to some photos if oscarmayer decides to post some.

You said the following to which I agree with the first part but wasn’t sure what you were specifically referring to in the second part as I mentioned to you.

There is no replacement for displacement unless you compare 1986 technology to 2015 technology, then it gets much closer.

[El Camexican]

Geez, for a while there I was thinking the Barnett of old, had been sedated, undergone shock therapy, or just plain mellowed out, but apparently not! back!

Oscar, for what it's worth I love small displacement engines. Nothing beats the sound of the smallest 2 stroke engine at the track pinned out like a maimed wasp against the backdrop of a big bore engines moaning like a cow getting inseminated by a latex lover (you farm boys know what I'm talking about). I think bkm is putting together a 125 as well, maybe if a few more get built Trikefest 2016 can have a 125cc 2 stroke class?

Good luck with it

[onformula1]

There is a second guy on this forum building one that I am lending a hand to.

It's a bit different but equally cool.

He will chime in when he is ready.

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

[Jmoozy27]

There is a second guy on this forum building one that I am lending a hand to.

It's a bit different but equally cool.

He will chime in when he is ready.

There is a guy in the newb section with one as well. It must be in the air because I'm hearing more and more about small displacement smokers build plans. We may need to raise the bar a hair for good sport. Maybe we can hire an engineer like Barnett!!!

[barnett468]

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Oscarmayer, after reviewing my post number 20, I can see that I could have shortened it considerably, unfortunately I lost focus and got caught up in replying to onformulas reply to that post [which only contained 3 1/3 rd lines which is nearly a record for me ], and the questions he asked me.


I would be more than happy to reduce the length of that post so it would be more specific to your particular topic [and quicker to skip past ], however, as you know, I have no edit button, therefore I don’t have the luxury of being able to go back and make corrections, additions or reductions like “normal” people do, so my apologies to everyone for not being able to make a perfect post every time.


By the way, just curious as to whom you might have make the pipe since they will need to have the bike.

[El Camexican]

.however, as you know, I have no edit button, therefore I don’t have the luxury of being able to go back and make corrections, additions or reductions like “normal” people do, so my apologies to everyone for not being able to make a perfect post every time.

I would have thought a smart guy like yourself would have created a new ID long ago, like; "barnett468.0" and gotten access to all the newbie goodies like an edit button and the free toaster.

[onformula1]

There is a guy in the newb section with one as well. It must be in the air because I'm hearing more and more about small displacement smokers build plans. We may need to raise the bar a hair for good sport. Maybe we can hire an engineer like Barnett!!![emoji38]

I don't have a ton of info yet, but I have been told there is a guy racing a Suzuki RM80 converted in the 250 pro class in California & Arizona and he keeps racking up wins, it surposed to be about the size of a 200X.

I have been told by a few its a RM125, I am researching for better info, but either way it's awesome!

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

[Jmoozy27]

I'm just happy that I found a good power plant for a 2 stroke build. I've been wanting a 250r since I was a kid. But to build something from the frame up that rare with a motor that is no longer being produced, I'll take that in a heartbeat. Just for the experience of the whole thing. I'm so ready to tackle this one. Just gotta clear up some space in my oven of a shop.

[barnett468]

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I would have thought a smart guy like yourself would have created a new ID long ago, like; "barnett468.0" and gotten access to all the newbie goodies like an edit button and the free toaster.

I'm waiting until they offer a set of steak knives with prefabulated amulite blades and finely crafted, artisan designed, faux wood handles and a four place setting of

monogramed paper doilies before I do that, cuz I'll need the knives to spread the low salt, cholesterol free, artificially flavored and colored, butter substitute, and the

plates to eat the tasty slices of bread that will be evenly toasted to a scrumptious looking golden brown, off of . . Plus the doilies will be a nice touch when I have guests over for toasted, "buttered" bread . . Maybe they will include a matching set of scented mood candles, and a CD of Lawrence Welk's Greatest Hits.