tapping into a 200s motors oil

[moonerdizzle]

i was wondering if it is possible to tap into the oiling system for a 200s motor, and if so would it cause any problems. the reason why im asking is because i got a good garrett gt1752 turbo off of a saab for free, with no shaft play, well, theres a lil, but thats normal, theres no oil in her at the moment. but back on track, i want to try to mate up my turbo and this here motor, i dont care if it justs adds weight or doesnt spool much, i just want something to do. and i would like to keep this build as cheap as i can with out going too cheap, namely, i dont want to have to buy a oil pump, oil tank, and all the extra lines to plump the turbo if i dont have to. any knowledge, ideas, or feed back on this would be awsome. thanks in advance

[tri again]

pretty sure I saw a thread on oil tap for a cooler
on THIS site.

Try the search function.

[Texas 200x]

Just curious what about a wastegate? Or no wastegate? Just a thought what if you made a little contained oil tank for it? It could probably be pretty small. Maybe not even pressurized just sitting above it gravity feed. As long as the bearings are lubed, right? Just a thought, Without seeing it and investigating it. Its kind of hard over the internet. Good luck! Let us know thanks and Welcome! Oh and This may be suited better for the Mad Scientist Lair!

[moonerdizzle]

Just curious what about a wastegate? Or no wastegate? Just a thought what if you made a little contained oil tank for it? It could probably be pretty small. Maybe not even pressurized just sitting above it gravity feed. As long as the bearings are lubed, right? Just a thought, Without seeing it and investigating it. Its kind of hard over the internet. Good luck! Let us know thanks and Welcome! Oh and This may be suited better for the Mad Scientist Lair!


i had it posted in the mad scientist lair and no one responded, and no, a gravity feed oil wont work, the bearings need atleast 5 psi. and the turbo i got has a internal wastegate wich is set to 7 psi right now but it is adjustable down to 5 psi if i remember right. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=13589329&l=8e9c7cd4e0&id=848230550http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=13589330&l=65a99e5f23&id=848230550

[Vealmonkey]

Yep, there sure is a way to tap into the oil passages in a 200x or 185s or 200s. I had posted those instructions on here at one time several years ago. The 110 you have to gap into the right side clutch case, but if I remember right for the 185s/200s/200x it is on the left side on the engine case. The instructions show just where to tap all 3 holes and what size to make. The center hole is for the oil passage block off so the oil will be directed into and out of the flexible oil lines. Dry doing a search for oil cooler on here and see what you find. The instructions I had posted showed for both the 90/110 and for the 185s/200s/200x.

[moonerdizzle]

is there a way that i could split the amount of oil going to the head and the turbo, cause im not sure i want to be pumping hi temp oil back into the engine and having that pumped up to my head. also, the oil leaving the turbo is frothy and drains out by gravity, not by pressure. i think i might have to get some fitting and do a bench test.

[tri again]

i remember saab was the first produncton cars to have turbos.1977?

Peoplewould race around and shut them off and smoke the bearings that run over 10 grand rpm.

so someone came up with a little tank that got pressureized and would drool oil thru the turbo bearings
for a minute or so to cool them down. after the engine was shut down.


Maybe that would work.

The real answer was to let them idle for a minute or so before shutting them off if you couldn't keep you foot out of the boost.

Freakin' rocketships

[fabiodriven]

i remember saab was the first produncton cars to have turbos.1977?

Peoplewould race around and shut them off and smoke the bearings that run over 10 grand rpm.



Actually, GM made the first production turbo cars in the 60's and turbos easily spin up to 100,000 RPM with some reaching up to 150,000 RPM.

[tri again]

oops

I missed an rpm digit.

100,000 rpm for the turbo.

the bearings are essentially meaningless at that speed.

they seem to need that oil to float on without touching anything.

[fabiodriven]

the bearings are essentially meaningless at that speed.

they seem to need that oil to float on without touching anything.

That's the principle behind any bearing aside from ball/roller style bearings. The mains and rods in just about every car and truck are the same way.

[Vealmonkey]

No way to split the oil coming from the engine that I know of. The oil is just redirected from the engine through a cooler and back to the engine to continue on in it's normal flow path. You may want to run seperate oil system for the turbo with a small oil tank and a small electric pump and through a small cooler and back to the tank. That's about the only way I can think of off hand to do it.

[WilliamJ]

Now that is a project! Can a 200cc motor could supply enough exhaust gas for a car turbo to get to 100,000rpm. The turbo needs to be small enough to spin up as it doesn't give much extra grunt until it reaches maybe 70 or 80,000 rpm or so. I don't know how big the Saab's turbo is but the motor was 2 litres. Unless you try you won't know! What about the turbo off a Smart car? They are only 600cc or so and there are likely some bike turbos that could be used. Maybe Garrett has a tech department you could talk to and they might be able to tell you how much air you need to pump into it. You could do a fairly simple calc to find out how much air can be pumped by the Honda engine at a given rpm……I would say about 600 litres a minute.

Bill

[tri again]

aside from CFM

a guy was gonna try a leaf blower (partial credit)

I wonder if there is some variant of Boyle's Law that could tease you into trying simple compressed air to simulate a pressurized intake.

A lot of this tech came from simple altitude compensators
for fly planes and win wars so there simply HAS to be tons of info
and calculations.

I'd be scared to lose oil pressure (IF they even have a pump)
like when the oil lines increase diameter for a simple cooler.

Do they have an oil pump? The 85 and later have pressureized oil filters
if so, do they show any sepecs for output?

The 85 plus have an oil line to the head and very tempting to tap off but I'd really triple check
or have an ignition cut off so it will Not start until the pressure is up.


hmmmm

[moonerdizzle]

the problem that people run into with turbos is they will beat on them and then not let the idle for a while to cool down the turbo. the just shut it off, and trust me, turbos can get glowing cherry red hot, i did it to my eagle talon tsi more than once. and if you cut off oil flow when it uber hot like that you will coke the bearings. and the turbo i got is pretty small, ive seen them on a 8 horse tecumseh motor, and yea, it was laggy as all get out, it would still start producing boost.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=13589329&l=8e9c7cd4e0&id=848230550
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=13589330&l=65a99e5f23&id=848230550

theres 2 links to pics of the turbo. and the whole reason why i dont just go out and buy a second oil pump and set up is one, i dont want to spend the money on it if i dont have to, two, i dont have the money to spend on it right now any ways. what i was thinking of doing, and i might do it just to see if it will work is tap in like i was going to be putting in a oil cooler, while keeping the lines as short as possible, run a splitting in between the pick up and return fittings on the block, run the smallest diameter tubing i can, probly some solid brake hose to were the turbo would sit, dump some extra oil in the case, and crank her over, maybe fire her up for a few seconds, and see if theres ample oil getting to the head and threw turbo. and i do have a spare oil pressure gauge laying around, so i might be able to fit that some were up near the turbo to see if im getting the pressures i need. i really dont see why it should drop the pressures down too much, but i dont knwo for sure, this is my first time messing around with a honda motor, and smaller 4 strokes in general, ive always been a 2 stroke guy until i got this trike for damn near free.

[Vealmonkey]

I do know someone running a turbo on thier trike, so it's possible. Just their engine is bigger and their turbo is smaller. But the trike owner is rather modest and doesn't really want a bunch of his stuff printed all over the internet or asked a bunch of questions. Heat shielding is very necessary to say the least. Turbo oil supply is very critical. Best of luck with your project. Not a journey to take with a limited budget. Do tons of more research online. It will save you money and headaches.

[moonerdizzle]

i got every thing i have for this project for free. i got the flange to mount the turbo to made up, just need to reduce the exhaust from 2.5 at the turbo to something a bit smaller to increase back pressure a wee bi, a lil trick i picked up to reduce turbo lag. and of course the whole oiling deal. so if the motors oil pump is up to the challenge, i should have a turbo trike for the cost of lines and fittings.

[harryredtrike]

use a super charger instead of a turbo,then you wont have all the heat issues

[moonerdizzle]

you tell me how and were i could attach a supercharger to this motor and were to find something to use as as supercharger ill consider it. and dont say smog pump eather, them are only for ghetto go carts, not that theres anything wrong with that.

[harryredtrike]

run a pulley off your pull starter assembly.the thought is theoretical of coarse

[moonerdizzle]

lol, i could, but then how would i start it, i dont want to have to carry a cordless drill with me or try to push start it cause i dont have the luxury of a kick starter or electric starter.