Carb problem, 86 250SX

[fabiodriven]

This is my first foray into a 250SX carb and let me go on the record right now as saying this is the most ASININE setup I have ever seen in my entire life.

I started with an attempted removal of the carb. I wasn't able to remove the carb from the machine because there is a mess of lines and cables going to the carb. I removed all the lines I was able to including the fuel line and a few other vacuum/drain lines or whatever the f**k they are. Now I have two cables on there, one throttle the other being the choke cable. They are both threaded into the carb body itself and I see no way I can unthread either one without physically spinning the carb to get them off. WTF? I have removed the airbox and all carb boots except for the front one that bolts to the head. So I said f**k it, I'll clean the damn carb where it is, in the bike.

Well that went over like a fart in church. I take out the floats and 3 jets (why 3 BTW?) and start spraying away. I unplugged a couple of ports and seemed to be making some progress. I put the jets back in and started spraying through them to make sure everything was opened up. There are two problems I have encountered at this point-

1- I can't seem to get any fluid to come out of the very front (closest to the motor) orifice that the mixture screw (?) is under. I'm assuming there is a port coming from one of the small jets that goes to this orifice and I can't seem to see where it is to unclog it (because I can't get the goddam carb off the bike). Where is this orifice supposed to get its fuel from?

2- All of a sudden this stupid little washer shows up from nowhere in the venturi near the butterfly and I have no idea where it came from. WTF?


All joking aside, I am honestly ready to liquidate the whole goddam fleet. I don't ride enough to keep the machines maintained and I have too many to keep up with. I destroyed my poor R at the last awful ride I went to in New Hampshire and I haven't even had the drive to wash the thing off yet because I don't even want to see what it looks like now.

I have some mental issues (go figure) and I can't concentrate when attempting to work on anything anymore and it's causing me more anguish than it's worth. This bike is supposed to go on it's maiden voyage to NH next weekend and at this point its maiden voyage is more likely to be off a f**kin cliff. I honestly couldn't care any less if I make it or not.

The washer in question is the one in the foreground. I know, I know, "use the manual Fabio". Well never in my life have I had to use a manual for a simple carb cleaning. I'd like to meet the guy who designed this setup so I could punch him in the face.

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r275/fabiodriven/002.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r275/fabiodriven/001.jpg

[RIDE-RED 250r]

The washer looks like a carb bowl screw washer to me, but it may have also been installed along with the spring pictured too.. A member here by the name of Chillian is a long time friend of mine and has an SX. He has had his carb off for service, but I wasnt present when he did it. Try PMing him, he would know the trick to get the carb outta there. I know he said it was a b***c. I wish I could help you a bit more than that, but I dont want to misdirect you.

[fabiodriven]

Thank you, but it's not a bowl washer.

[TecateDan]

Put the green skins back on the tecate and deal with the sx later. Oh yea when I wash my tecate after this ride I'll was that poor R for you too since underneath all that mud it's still an awesome trike that just needs a bit o motor work kid. No big deal kid, I got a case splitter and we'll have that puppy up and running in no time..

[RIDE-RED 250r]

By any chance did the spring come out with the mixture screw?

[dougspcs]

I know you don't want to hear this but you have to get that carb off!!

If you don't include removing and cleaning the choke plunger and jet in your carb clean effort you may find the whole exercize is for not..

Remove the plastic side cover from the carb body and unhook the throttle cable..you should be able to unscrew the cable from the body without spinning the carb.

2nd, just as you called it..a wrench on the choke cable nut which is plastic and spin the carb until in unscrews then pull the cable until the plunger comes out of the choke bore.

I couldn't believe how much dirt had gotten sucked into the choke plunger..clean it good and even throw a thin layer of silicone grease on the plunger before doing the whole thing in reverse..

I've practiced this little routine on my big red, fourtrax and SX...all are the same.

You gotta take the hard road on this one..

The little washer appeared on the paper towel when I did it also, memory tells me it may be for the mixture screw below the spring..but not 100%(it's been a while)..

good luck!!

[jensenracing77]

the front "jet" is more like a choke jet. if you open the choke i bet you will get it to spray through. the little washer also has a rubber O ring that goes with it. it is still in the carb or fell out also. they go in the mixture screw hole. when holding the screw you would first put the washer on then the rubber O ring on then thread the entire thing into the body. just look inside the body to see if the little O ring is still in there. they are hard to see and may very well be lost.

[jensenracing77]

X2 on the spring. it would be the spring then the washer then the O ring.

[El Camexican]

The fiche lists three washers and I don't think any are the ones you have in the photos as there are two on on the bowl and the third is on the upper front right side on a screw that holds a cover they call the "body cover" http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/1986-honda-atc250sx/o/m1914#sch6400

However there is a jet/screw looking thing that goes into the carb from the bottom on the front right corner called a "screw set" and it seems to have a washer that the spring pushes up against to keep it from touching a small gasket. Looks a lot like your picturers, but the fiche is so blurry I can't be sure.

Disconnect those cables at the bars and spin them off. Your sanity will return once you get that abortion of a carb on a clean bench.

[aldochina]

you have to get the choke plunger out. loosen that plastic nut that threads into the carb. it should spin freely of the cable. then the whole plunger assembly "should" pull right out! they do get froze up, imagine that, you may have to hit it with some penetrant if its frozen. once you get that plunger out you can turn the carb body "stupid I know" to release the throttle cable.

[fabiodriven]

I took some deep breaths, thanks for the tremendous help guys. I had to walk away before things started flying.

That sounds right that the washer would go with the mixture screw. So there is another O-ring Jensen? I'm a little confused as to your assembly instructions. Are you referring to the order of installation in relation to the carb or how they would stack on the needle? I'd prefer the order in which to stack them on the needle. Very good info on opening the choke to see if that port flows Jensen, I'll try that.

Rory, I thought that would be how the choke cable would come out, but it appears to be all one piece? Although I really couldn't see straight through my rage. I'll have to take another peek.



Remove the plastic side cover from the carb body and unhook the throttle cable..you should be able to unscrew the cable from the body without spinning the carb.

2nd, just as you called it..a wrench on the choke cable nut which is plastic and spin the carb until in unscrews then pull the cable until the plunger comes out of the choke bore.

Doug, I tried my best to remove the throttle cable. I removed the plastic cover and wanted to do exactly what you just said, but I saw no way the cable comes off that elbow. It appears to all be one piece.

There is no way I can spin the body of the carb to get the choke plunger out if the throttle cable is still in there.

[fabiodriven]

I would just like to reiterate that this is the dumbest, THE DUMBEST setup I have ever seen. I see it every day on here, "Oh buy a Honda, no more problems! Ride red dude!" Well let me just tell you, the engineers must have called in sick the day they were designing this setup. It appears as though they grabbed the closest janitor, blindfolded him, spun him around a few times, and gave him a pen to draw up a design. My friggin god, what an abomination.

[atc007]

I thought this was a joke?? I now think it's not? Remove the plastic side cover,push the throttle up with your thumb,,THEN,slide the cable out of the throttle. Loosen lock nut on top of carb,unscrew carb. 2 minutes,,you're holding the carb. If the choke doesn't simply loosen and come out,,carefully work it. It will come out as long as your choke is free?? if it is NOT free,,post back,,cuz that is a whole nother story you are gonna want NOTHING of!!! Washer is what they have said. Deep breath! Wooooosssaaaaa.. Sorry, I love Bad Boys 2!

[fabiodriven]

I'm on the phone with Dirtcrasher. He just explained everything you guys said. I'm gonna give 'er another go tomorrow.

[bigworm626]

Were with you Fabio, just keep the deep breathes coming. You got wisdom on your side. :Bounce

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I thought this was a joke?? I now think it's not? Remove the plastic side cover,push the throttle up with your thumb,,THEN,slide the cable out of the throttle. Loosen lock nut on top of carb,unscrew carb. 2 minutes,,you're holding the carb. If the choke doesn't simply loosen and come out,,carefully work it. It will come out as long as your choke is free?? if it is NOT free,,post back,,cuz that is a whole nother story you are gonna want NOTHING of!!! Washer is what they have said. Deep breath! Wooooosssaaaaa.. Sorry, I love Bad Boys 2!

Yep, seized choke barrels/plungers, whatever you want to call em are a sunuvagun to coax out of their hole!

[fabiodriven]

Thankfully it's not seized. I just have to slide the elbow up I guess. Thanks guys.

[aldochina]

the plastic nut deffinately should turn right out, and spin free of the cable. this is how it must be done! i have done it a million times. the 250es, and 350x also run the exact same carb body design. x has a different style choke though.

[tri again]

Last post got lost, Said I had to log in but my only option was to log out so it got lost.

Highlights.
ULtimate care with choke plunger, tabs bend and break easily .
I missed an emulsion tube twice. It hides under one of the screw out jets, separate piece.
My second to last sx has an aftermkt Keihin with a flip flapper choke and accel pump
so absolute worst case scenario is actually quite nice.

Yupp, these are nothing like the 185/200 carbs that come off, cleaned and back on in 20 minutes.

They sure are nice when they work.
You'll forget the pain.
..and which way the tiny little arrow on the longer air boot goes.

[dougspcs]

Doug, I tried my best to remove the throttle cable. I removed the plastic cover and wanted to do exactly what you just said, but I saw no way the cable comes off that elbow. It appears to all be one piece.

There is no way I can spin the body of the carb to get the choke plunger out if the throttle cable is still in there.

I think I need to apologize..it's the choke plunger cable you can remove by twisting the cable..the throttle elbow is the one you have to spin the carb to remove..Aldo called me out on that. My bad!!

It has been a while since I did mine..

[jensenracing77]

I'm on the phone with Dirtcrasher. He just explained everything you guys said. I'm gonna give 'er another go tomorrow.

i am assuming he got you the right order for the pilot screw?

[fabiodriven]

i am assuming he got you the right order for the pilot screw?

He did, yes sir. Thank you for asking Jensen!

[Jason125m]

Glad you got her figured out Fabio. I had a hell of a time with mine when I had to clean it. Goodluck man, sorry to hear about your R...

[TecateDan]

I'm glad he got it figured out because he is my ride next saturday !!!!!

[murfman]

Wow, I bought a 250sx last month, and mind you this is my first ATC/ATV/Motorcycle etc.. ever. It was a biotch to start, needed a shot of starting fluid everytime, so I ordered a carb kit off E-bay and rebiult the carb. Removing the carb did not seem to that big of a hassle to me, I removed the throttle cable from the thumb throttle on the handlebars, the plastic cover off the side of the carb, and the choke cable at the carb, the carb popped right out on the right side of the frame. The washer you found is indeed from the mixture screw, along with the spring and an O-ring. Hope you get it figured out. My carb waas all gummed up from bad gas, I let the pieces soak overnight in a gallon can of carb cleaner I bought at Autozone and re assembled the carb the next day after blowing out every port with carb cleaner and air. I had a total of ~45 minutes of work time from pulling it apart to starting it up. As a side note she fires right up and idles instantly even in 40 degree weather without using the choke now. Good luck with it. BTW I downloaded the service manual on line, printed it out and bound it at work, I usually work first and read later, but this being my first foray into a small motor I found the manuals very helpful.

[fabiodriven]

Thanks again to all.

I put on my big girl panties this morning and came in with a game plan thanks to you all. I got 'er back together in no time flat and she purrs like a kitten now. I'm really glad I walked away yesterday.

[atc007]

Took me 2 years in business to realize ,,THE...most important thing I could do...Was to learn to walk away... It always goes better when I return!! I am pretty level headed,,but 2 holes in the garage door later,,,,I use Craftsman hammers : ). I HAD to learn to walk away,go for a ride.. Just leave the problem,and return with a level head.. Nice to hear you making fun of yourself too.!! How do they fit? They really aren't that bad of a setup,,they start Very well down to -20. Thet run great right up to 100. I like them,,but that's just me!! Glad to hear she's purring,,as we knew she would be!!

[fabiodriven]

The tools were very close to flying last night 007, I know where you're coming from.

If you can't laugh at yourself, you shouldn't laugh at others.

[bigworm626]

"Hardcore Fabio" Even the biggest bass can get caught on a 2lb test line & get reeled in. But Fabio fought back & snapped the line.Great thread!

[Big Sal]

I feel your pain fabio...I have an SX with running issues that these guys have been walking me thru getting it right....it will all be worth it in the end I hope!! I know what you mean...they buried the carb in between everything....lol...I've had to walk away from mine several times to keep from dismantling it with a 15 lb sledge....I have a 91 Suzuki 230 Quadrunner (god forgive me) that's beat to death that will walk circles around my SX...and if that POS can run that good for as whooped as it is...the SX should be a blast when it's finally running right!

[TecateDan]

Oh boy looks like this is not happening friday night before the ride on saturday