honda atc 200 but which one?

[MisterRoboto]

i just got this atc today
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/IMG_20130823_152338_626_zps0bd683d1.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/Adam_Button/media/IMG_20130823_152338_626_zps0bd683d1.jpg.html)
cant seem to find a vin on the neck but i found this serial on the engine
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/IMG_20130824_021430_959_zps42d48b3e.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/Adam_Button/media/IMG_20130824_021430_959_zps42d48b3e.jpg.html)
and this on the frame
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/7e3baec2-5e1b-4a3a-bc44-68c306923e19_zps80da4142.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/Adam_Button/media/7e3baec2-5e1b-4a3a-bc44-68c306923e19_zps80da4142.jpg.html)
tried to use the decoder online but it wouldnt take this serial number
anyone know the specific model for this one? is the engine not original?
thank you very much

[RDH/86200X]

Looks like an 83 and its got 83-85 200x rear hubs and rims on it.

[tripledog]

Pretty sure it is a 200M. According to the vin decal, it is an '84 or '85 model (depends on the month it was produced).

[MisterRoboto]

according to this thread the engine serial is an 83 200x? or am i reading that incorrectly?
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/141286-Honda-Engine-Serial-Numbers

should the vin be stamped into the neck or was it a decal/sticker on the neck?
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/IMG_20130824_111059_761_zps6276caee.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/Adam_Button/media/IMG_20130824_111059_761_zps6276caee.jpg.html)
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/IMG_20130824_111120_013_zpseeb357ad.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/Adam_Button/media/IMG_20130824_111120_013_zpseeb357ad.jpg.html)
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/IMG_20130824_111034_747_zpsce713398.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/Adam_Button/media/IMG_20130824_111034_747_zpsce713398.jpg.html)


also if it helps the identification my engine does have high low and reverse.
what is the lever on the head on the right side near sparkplug/valve cover?

[MonroeMike]

Is it shaft or chain drive? (I can't tell, my monitor is too dark, even on the brightest setting).

You may have found an error in the serial numbers, I double checked the manual(s). I copied it correctly, but their info may be wrong. I will update the page, after this is figured out.

You "might" find a VIN by taking a wire brush to the circled area.

176085

[tripledog]

The lever on the head is a compression release that allows you to use the recoil starter while still retaining full function of your rotator cuff. ;) I see parts from a few different trikes on yours. The tank looks like it came off an S model, and the forks are from a 200M model. If the trike is shaft driven, the engine and frame are from a 200ES model.

[natedogg1980]

Looke like a 200 es

[MisterRoboto]

it is shaft driven
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/IMG_20130825_111807_800_zps23a0c84b.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/Adam_Button/media/IMG_20130825_111807_800_zps23a0c84b.jpg.html)

wire brushed it some and didnt seem to find anything.
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/IMG_20130825_112632_334_zpsa9fb7c2b.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/Adam_Button/media/IMG_20130825_112632_334_zpsa9fb7c2b.jpg.html)

my main concern is finding out what engine it is so i can get some gaskets and prob timing chain for it
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/IMG_20130825_111618_359_zps27b9ca66.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/Adam_Button/media/IMG_20130825_111618_359_zps27b9ca66.jpg.html)
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/IMG_20130825_111626_812_zps2d380064.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/Adam_Button/media/IMG_20130825_111626_812_zps2d380064.jpg.html)

i really appreciate the help guys thanks

[kb0nly]

If it has hi/lo/reverse then the engine is a 200ES. Looks like someone frankentriked it with a tank and forks off of other models.

Edit...

For some reason when i was on my phone earlier i didnt see the above post with the added pictures... Definitely a 84 200ES motor at least! The rest seems to be bits and pieces from other years.

[MisterRoboto]

having a real hard time getting the bottom engine mount bolt out.
there is no way to remove the head without taking the engine out of the frame is therE?

searching the net i found another post on this forum in which the guy needed to get a broken exhaust stud out and instead of removing his engine he could remove the head studs to get the head off. so i think im going to try to do this before continuing to remove the entire engine... wish me luck

[dman10]

The engine is defiantly a 200es

[kb0nly]

Pull the motor to work on it, you will be glad you did in the long run.

DONT remove the top end studs... You can't anyway unless you pull the top end off most times. If you unbolt the rocker cover you won't have much stud to work with to get a hold of, and chances are you will just break one or rip the threads out of the bottom end. They tend to collect moisture and get corroded into the cases, i have had to pull the top end and soak in PB Blaster and apply heat from a torch to get them out before.

I have unbolted and removed the motor from a 200ES more than a few times now, its a pain but better than breaking something. To get that bottom bolt out get a long punch, aka a drift, or even a long philips screwdriver if you have one that you don't mind pounding on, then just hammer it out. Once you get them all out before you put the motor back in clean everything and grease the bolts!

Edit...

Looked at your other pics, thats odd there is no VIN on the side of the downtube, there is on every one i have worked on. I am guess its not an 84 200ES frame but rather something else someone cobbled together. I think some of the other years had just a sticker, which would explain why yours doesn't if they took a frame from another year/model. Just guessing though, but that spot you wire brushed is where the VIN should be stamped in for sure!

[MisterRoboto]

i might take your advice and continue to try and get that bottom bolt out. i tried pounding it out for probably an hour with a socket extension and it wont budge -.- rusted in there real good i guess i was going to take the studs out to avoid removing the shaft drive as ive only ever had 1 other atc and that was when i was 13 so i havent worked on one yet


went and beat on it for another 15minutes. wont move... tried to double nut and remove one of the studs and i did not like how it felt so now im not sure what to do. i have an air hammer but not a good attachment for it maybe ill see if i can find one that will work tomorrow
wish me luck

[kebby28]

I think the serial number is stamped on the right side of the neck and the sticker was on the left

[tripledog]

I think the serial number is stamped on the right side of the neck and the sticker was on the left

That is where the serial number appears on my 250es trikes.
The serial number on my 1984 200es is stamped vertically on the front right area (when standing in front of the trike) of the steering head tube, just under the headlight.

[kb0nly]

Mine is stamped on the tube also, so odd his isn't on either?

The shaft drive isn't that bad as far as taking apart. Let me give you a couple tips that i have discovered on these, like i said i had mine out twice, and a buddies out like three times (he was dang hard on it but has since learned through his pocket), and another one i tore out to.

All you have to do for removal is loosen the front band, the motor side, of the rubber boot for the driveshaft. The knuckle/universal joint will pull right off as you pull the motor out of the frame, its not latched or otherwise its free floating across the two shaft ends and its kept aligned with a spring thats on the driveshaft.

Now re-assembly is a pain merely because of that dang spring, it won't compress easily allowing the motor to move back far enough so the motor clears the frame in the front and drops down into place. Here is how i have got it to work twice now... Loosen the back clamp of the driveshaft boot and slide that back onto the driveshaft housing, force the boot back as far as it goes, you can get it slide back at least half its length to give you some more hand room in there. Then bring the motor in, you pull it out and put it in from the left side by tipping the top end to the left side and then just rolling it out and pull it, towards the side with the recoil and sub-trans. When you put the motor back in get it nearly all the way back in, have the knuckle/universal joint on the motors output shaft, line it up with the driveshaft and get it started. Now to get the spring to compress and the motor to slide back in the rest of the way here is how i do it faster now. Put the rear end up on jackstands, then turn the wheels by hand to rotate the driveshaft, it will spin around until everything lines up and the weight of the motor will just make it drop into place. Then start putting the bolts back in, i start with the hanger bolt and the top rear bolt to get stuff lined up.

I wont tell you its easy, its a real pain on the shaft drives, but its not as bad as breaking a stud! Got access to a impact wrench? If you do i would put it on the head of that lower motor bolt and hammer away till you get it to turn, once it turns then it should be easier to tap it out. You might even have to alternate between spinning it and beating on it.

[honda200xguy]

Looks like a 200es defiantly not a 200x

[MisterRoboto]

i will brush the other side today. if i do manage to get the engine off what are some maintenance things i should do to it while its out?

[kb0nly]

As for maintenance, if you buy a gasket kit i would take off the right side engine cover as well, take off the centrifugal oil filter as they call it, its a cover over the clutch and it slings the oil around inside and builds up crud. It can be really nasty in there because most people don't do the maintenance on it. All you need is a right cover gasket and a gasket for that cover. Plus you can clean it all out good and get the grime settled to the bottom of the cover and case on that side.

On the left side i would change the oil seal for the crankshaft, where the recoil basket sits in the left cover. That will leak eventually... LOL

Since your taking the top end apart, replace the base gasket, the gasket under the cylinder to the bottom end, that sucker always seems to leak on me if i take the head off and not the cylinder, its like after loosening it up retorque and it still doesn't seal.

Depending on how much your willing to spend, i would do a timing chain and guide/tensioner bands as well since you have it apart. Better to do it all at once, sure it costs more but then you wont be buying more gaskets and pulling it apart again down the road!

Overall, clean, clean, clean. Thats what i do when i have to open one up. So much easier to do when the motor is on the bench!

[MisterRoboto]

thanks kb i hope to do all of those, really helpful. If you dont mind me wasting more of your time whats a high low estimate on all those parts. cannot get this bolt out though. tried hitting it on the bolt headside with a torque wrench to loosen it up but it will not, and tried a punch a bunch of times and it does not budge. tempted to cut it but i dont even know if i could get in there to be able to cut it even. really frustrating lil sonofagun

tried heat as well but im afraid to damage something else, i think im going to drill the head off and try to dremel cut the end off. then punch or drill out the rest when its off the frame

[kb0nly]

Oh i would say top end is around $200 to get all the parts and shipping... Just an estimate, you can shop around and find some of it cheaper. eBay, DR ATV, and G&H Discount ATV, are the three places i usually look for a quick new parts buy. There is bikebandit also but the last i tried to order from them they didnt have the 200ES gasket kit or the timing chain tensioner.

Damn, its probably seized up where it passes through the aluminum of the motor then. The only thing you have to worry about applying heat on that bottom bolt is that it crosses the split in the case, and the last thing you want to do is have to split the case to replace a cooked gasket. That lower bolt only has a metal tang on either side of the motors case, the entire length of the bolt is in the motors aluminum case. The problem is cutting it off you will still have to drill both sides so that the ends are inside of the metal tang off the frame to clear them. If you go that route then you can soak in PB Blaster once the motor is out to get it out of the motor.

[sledcrazyinCT]

Your trike should be an 84 big red The engine S/N verifies it


i just got this atc today

cant seem to find a vin on the neck but i found this serial on the engine
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/IMG_20130824_021430_959_zps42d48b3e.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/Adam_Button/media/IMG_20130824_021430_959_zps42d48b3e.jpg.html)



1984 Honda ATC200ES Big Red,

Frame number JH3TB0554EC300001~
Engine number TB05E-6000001~
Engine type 4 stroke, Air cooled
Displacement 192 cc
Bore x Stroke 65 x 57.8 mm
Compression ratio 7.8 to 1
Compression 142 - 170 psi
Transmission speeds 5 speed with dual range & Reverse
Clutch Type Automatic
Oil Capacity 1.43 Qt
Carburetion 22 mm Keihin
Starting system Electric with recoil backup
Fuel capacity 3gal with .03 reserve
Wheelbase 48.4 in.
Overall Length 72.8 in.
Overall Width 42.1 in.
Ground Clearance 5.9 in.
Seat height 27 in.
Front tire 25 x 12 x 9
Rear tires 25 x 12 x 9
Front suspension Telescopic Forks
Rear suspension none
Front brake Drum
Rear brake Drum
Final drive Shaft
Dry weight 375 lbs
Approx. retail new $1,848.00

[MatthewBuckrell]

looks like a 200m

[Dexter]

Well the container looks, like it came off an D design and the forks are from a 100M design. If the
tricycle, is base motivated the motor and structure are from a 170ES design.

[MisterRoboto]

got around to trying to get the engine out again over the last week or so and i think i have the bolts drilled out enough on each side of the tabs but its still hard to tell for sure. but damn this thing being a pain in the ass to get out

[MisterRoboto]

finally got the bolt ends drilled enough to pry the engine out heres whats left of the bolt ends... wish me luck with that -.-
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/IMG_20140122_210545_067_zps4dbcedea.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/Adam_Button/media/IMG_20140122_210545_067_zps4dbcedea.jpg.html)
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/IMG_20140122_210605_339_zps360917e9.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/Adam_Button/media/IMG_20140122_210605_339_zps360917e9.jpg.html)

[MisterRoboto]

took off the head and it looks like it may have been just gasket failure? the cylinder looks good and doesnt seem to have much play side to side

EDIT: forgot photoshop doesnt show that these 2 are videos when embeded
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/th_VID_20140122_210211_156_zps81702ebd.jpg (http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/VID_20140122_210211_156_zps81702ebd.mp4)
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/th_VID_20140122_210136_555_zps50e13694.jpg (http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/VID_20140122_210136_555_zps50e13694.mp4)

http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/IMG_20140122_204518_302_zps33f2087c.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/Adam_Button/media/IMG_20140122_204518_302_zps33f2087c.jpg.html)
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/IMG_20140122_204547_498_zpsc4004c64.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/Adam_Button/media/IMG_20140122_204547_498_zpsc4004c64.jpg.html)

http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/IMG_20140122_205947_789_zpsd487184c.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/Adam_Button/media/IMG_20140122_205947_789_zpsd487184c.jpg.html)
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/IMG_20140122_210255_323_zps31f32320.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/Adam_Button/media/IMG_20140122_210255_323_zps31f32320.jpg.html)
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/IMG_20140122_210349_633_zps88c99dc8.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/Adam_Button/media/IMG_20140122_210349_633_zps88c99dc8.jpg.html)

[kb0nly]

Doesnt look to bad, these always leak oil as the o-ring fails on the right rear head dowel. Thats the oil galley up to the head. Once that starts leaking the oil just seeps around everywhere. bore doesn't look too bad in the pics at least. Timing chain guides arent that bad either really.

[MisterRoboto]

ya reason i wanted head off was cause it seems like there was little compression when i got it. im tryin to get a street bike soon so dont have much money to throw at it as usual. im thinkin bout getting a top end gasket kit and fixing up the wiring and see what happens.

what do i look for when inspecting the chain guides? they look good but im just an amatuer. will get more pics up lil later or tomorrow

[kb0nly]

Main thing with the timing chain is if they are less than 50% thickness where the wear marks are i replace them, but also the chain needs to be in good shape. When you had it running did the chain rattle from being sloppy or was it quiet? Usually the chain stretches and the tensioner can't keep it tight anymore before the guides are shot.

[MisterRoboto]

http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/IMG_20140124_181406_497_zps02b1bcab.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/Adam_Button/media/IMG_20140124_181406_497_zps02b1bcab.jpg.html)
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/IMG_20140124_181440_953_zpsb383f758.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/Adam_Button/media/IMG_20140124_181440_953_zpsb383f758.jpg.html)

http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/IMG_20140124_181613_316_zps12f23494.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/Adam_Button/media/IMG_20140124_181613_316_zps12f23494.jpg.html)
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l632/Adam_Button/IMG_20140124_181551_485_zps098a42d8.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/Adam_Button/media/IMG_20140124_181551_485_zps098a42d8.jpg.html)

unfortunately i didnt have it running. :/ i bought it as a project. any other way to tell if the chain is bad? i assume not

took it to the local atv shop and they thought it looked to be in decent shape. had them cross hatch the cylinder and looks like it sat too long at one point said it would run but will prob smoke.
he said he will look in their storage when its not so cold out and maybe ill be lucky and they will have a cylinder with original bore

[MisterRoboto]

picked up a 200s the other day for 100bucks and ofcourse the same bolt is seized :D gonna try everything to not have to drill out again -.- wish me luck

[kb0nly]

Since they re-honed the bore i would put in a new set of rings then. They will take some time to break in. Also even if its no longer letting oil past the rings after a hone and new rings chances are she will smoke a while... There will be oil built up in the exhaust. I have had that happen, rebuild the motor and the exhaust still burns off oil in it for a month of riding... LOL

[MisterRoboto]

had to spin the craink backwards to get the chain unstuck and it makes a grinding noise taht it doesnt make when i spin it the correct direction... i figure a gear isnt in great shape or it does this cause of the trans for some reason?

while im at it my new to me 200s has a nice shape seat but it has a rust stain on it anyone have a good way to remove rust from these old seats?
thanks