big red 250 sticky shifter after sitting many years

[cirose]

hey guys i just aquired a 85 big red 250 in excellent condition. original tires and exhaust.. it had been sitting for 10 years or more, very clear that the bike has little use but the gear shifter gets stuck while shifting up or down. seems to get better the more i drive it but it still gets stuck up and down from time to time. wondering what the fix for this is? oil was changed in it recently

[yaegerb]

limited experience on a big red but the actuators are roughly the same on most of these models. I would expose the clutch side of the case and take a look to see that your shift drum center (shift star), gear shift stopper, gear shift spring and gearshift return spring are all functioning properly. If its been sitting for 10 years, condensation may have built up in the oil causing oxidation in one or more of those components or maybe something has sheared after years of use.

[atc007]

Pull the Stator cover, your stud has broken off for your shifter. The problem will be very evident once you're in there :) Very easy fix.

[cirose]

are new gaskets required for this job? nothing going to fall out when i take it off right?

[atc007]

The stud that holds your shifter return spring is loose/most likely broken. You will need a new stud most likely,and a stator cover gasket or silicone if it rips.Good idea to do the shifter seal fresh while you're in there.

[cirose]

can anyone point me in the direction of a new one? i also have 2 spare engines here but would prefer to stay out of those unless the parts are expensive or i could get away from taking much apart by switching the whole side case

[yaegerb]

A new one what? You need to find the problem before throwing your wallet at it.

[cirose]

well a stator cover gasket and shifter seal for sure if im taking the cover off. i live on a small island off the east coast of canada. looking at 2-3 weeks shipping for anything at all. would prefer to not have the bike apart all summer

thanks

[atc007]

Nothing scary jumps out, I would very carefully crack open a spare engine for practice. You will then be familiar with what you've got. And if the shifter seal is dry, you CAN do this with no gaskets or silicone at a rip at worst. Piece of cake. 21 is your culprit, Keep an eye on 10, they don't shift without that little bugger ;) Don't get scared, the drum and forks are all inside the engine

http://fiche.worldofpowersports.com/wps/showmodel.asp?Type=13&make=hondaatv&a=17&b=16&c=0&d=-GEARSHIFT-DRUM

[yaegerb]

Nothing scary jumps out, I would very carefully crack open a spare engine for practice. You will then be familiar with what you've got. And if the shifter seal is dry, you CAN do this with no gaskets or silicone at a rip at worst. Piece of cake. 21 is your culprit, Keep an eye on 10, they don't shift without that little bugger ;) Don't get scared, the drum and forks are all inside the engine

http://fiche.worldofpowersports.com/wps/showmodel.asp?Type=13&make=hondaatv&a=17&b=10&c=0&d=-CRANKCASE-COVER---LEFT

I must be misreading Bill....is 21 is a case dowel?

[atc007]

Great catch Brendon ;). I have no clue why it tagged the wrong page,did it 3 times for me. Should be fixed now!

[cirose]

cool thanks for the insight! learning a lot about these bikes lately. recently on the old 86 i done the swing arm bearings, new wheel bearings, all new brakes, starter solenoid and handle bar electronics switch.. now i have this 85 which needs a few odds and ends too.

only thing im stumped on is the carb rebuild kit i put in the 86, i followed the factory manual procedures.. set the jetting back to stock specs, but the new stuff seems to be a bit richer in every area of throttle postion. the old stuff seemed to have one size smaller on every jet and the needle clip was 1 position leaner, pilot screw was in closer to 1 turn although manual calls for around 2 turns out.

first 1/4 throttle is good, anything past 1/2 all the way to full throttle is good, only the mid range got a bog in it i cant seem to work out with the pilot screw. seems like its rich to me but i cant see why, did i forget somthing? there was a small spring and o ring left over in the rebuild kit i couldnt find anywhere to put it.. was thinking maby it was a universal kit for 85 or 86 carbs and the 86 didnt have that. either way im not expert on carbs but the only thing that could be effecting mid range would be the needle clip and/or the pilot screw? might start another thread on that though

[cirose]

quick update i took out the needle and put in on 3rd clip. seems to be running good now. still havent dug into the 85 shifter problem yet

[jeswinehart]

Had the carb off of my barn find twice today,,, thought I had it all cleaned out the first time I removed it a couple of days ago,,, not.
I belive the left over small spring and very small O ring belongs on the pilot screw adjustment.
I need to adjust mine from the factory 2 turns out as well,,,, after the motor cools down.
john

[jeswinehart]

Cirose, where do you have your pilot screw at now ?
You have fresher knowledge then I do about them,,,, I need to adjust mine but thought I would start with your recent exsperiance.

Thanks, john

[atc007]

After the carb is spotless John, I take a bit from a screwdriver,a good glove,and adjust the idle as high as it will go on the air screw. That's your engine telling you exactly where it is the happiest,re adjust every 30 degrees or so. Usually twice a year,but all carbs are a lil different. Then adjust your idle screw back down and wa la, that part is set. If it still won't run right,it will need to be soaked in good carb cleaner.

[cirose]

Cirose, where do you have your pilot screw at now ?
You have fresher knowledge then I do about them,,,, I need to adjust mine but thought I would start with your recent exsperiance.

Thanks, john

hey john my pilot screw is between 1.5- 2 turns out. i set it at 2 when i put the rebuild kit in and fine tuned it a bit from there with the bike running. basically i just turn it either way a bit until i feel i have the best throttle response. as for the spring going in the pilot air screw that could be possible, my old one didnt have one but it may have been missing.. i put the original needle in when i adjusted the clip position, the new needle is definetly different then the old one, but then again everything in the old carb was different size also... i ordered a kit for an 86 but maybe i have a different carb. the vent lines are definetly 86 though.

the old needle tapered sooner then the new one from the clip seat. seems like the bike would be richer with the old one

also im going to pull apart a spare motor today and see if i can figure out my shifting issues

[jeswinehart]

Good info, thanks cirose !
Yes, let us know what you find out about the sticky shifter,,,,

[cirose]

233300233301233302233303


Got the engine cover off it and found the stud broke as you said.
Ruined the gasket of course, the stud was broke off deep in the case. Went to drill a hole in it for the easy-out. Some how the drill ended up threading the broke off peice in deeper until it fell inside what i think to be the transmission or in by crank bearings not really sure. I was lucky enough to get it out with a small magnet through an oil passage. Everything is back together just waiting for gasket to dry

[atc007]

Man,I'm sorry. I should have said to be careful not to lose it in the tranny!!!!! For removing pieces like that,you want the left hand drill bit/easy out all in one.Hopefully you'll be back in business now.

[jeswinehart]

Wow, what a skillful extraction with the magnet !!! Good job !

[cirose]

It was a learning experience for sure. Hopefully all works well. Also here is a pic of the spring, o ring, washer and a jet I couldn't figure out a place for in the 86 carb. Seems to run great without it? Lol

[atcmatt]

The spring, washer and Oring go on the mixture needle screw. The jet is a starter jet for the later model carbs.

[jeswinehart]

I was thinking pilot screw (my o ring + washer are missing in my parts carb),,, but yeah,,,, one of the 2 areas mentioned.

[cirose]

I was thinking pilot screw (my o ring + washer are missing in my parts carb),,, but yeah,,,, one of the 2 areas mentioned.

Float bowl has to come off to get the pilot screw off or no

[jeswinehart]

Nope, pilot screw is on the outside,,, towards the jug.
I ended up running a wire drill size # 68 inside mine, blowing air u into it, hitting it with carb cleaner and repeated process again for good measure. Using your info you provided ~ it idles !!! Not a perfect idle but I can walk away from it and its is putting away when I come back so success.
I have had that carb off 3 times, thought I had it "cleaned out" the first time,,,, oh heck no.
Near as I can figure my barn find 250 bigred had been sitting 15-16 years.
Anyways, I found it easier to pull the crank case vent hose off and tuck it back out of the way, push up the one carb vent hose to get it out of my way,,,, all so I could fit my hand in there better with a itsy bitsy flat tip.
Got mine sold to a fellow board member I ride with regularly for a family member of his to ride

[cirose]

good to hear you got it running. been there done that, this time i went with the full rebuild kit, my bike had a stutter i couldnt get out of it with the pilot screw, i think the float needle/seat thingy was on its way out.. the full kit wasn't expensive either. 20 bucks CAD to my door i think i paid.

also just had the 85 out for a rip on the beach. shifts great and i dont see any oil leaking yet. hopefully thats the last time i have to open up the side case again!