PA 250R mystery ATC

[MCATVME]

Hello members. I'm new to the site and I recently picked up a odd 250R. Please look at pics and help me to discover what we got. Looks to be a 81-82. No disk brake on the front, drum, all 250r had disk. Engine number reads 961AE-0020 which does not match any engine numbers that I know of. Who/why was the neck modified. Whos pipe is on it? Front and rear fenders are fiberglass. Plus more. SO lets see if we can get this figured out. Thanks in advance.

[MCATVME]

Some more pics.233365233366

[efhondakid]

I have a strong feeling this is a very good find. If I was to guess I would say it could be maybe a pre-production or some sort of factory race bike. The neck has to be to for adjusting rake/trail.

[atc007]

SAE Bolts w lock washers,,,,anything Honda is out. The only way I can see to adjust anything would be putting washers in between the sandwiched metal plates,which doesn't seem to be happening there. Cool old bike.

[MCATVME]

Found this on the inside of the front fender. 233369

[MCATVME]

Engine case with vin pic. I have yet to see a case that looks the same. The spud next to the flat plate is not molded to the vin area as are the 81-82. Hope that made sense. 233370

[ironchop]

I know there is a department at American Honda Motors called Special Projects that was an R&D wing. Might be something important indeed

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[ironchop]

To change the trail on that front end you would only need to slide the neck up or down. It doesn't seem like much but it raises the height enough to kick out the neck a few degrees. The front axle location being static means the trail changes and so will the handling.

That's my uneducated guess

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[Jd110]

Is there a story behind the purchase? Might shine some light on your question.
Looks like a special 'pick'. Congrats


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MCATVME]

It was CL buy believe it or not. Still trying to track back through the people but it's not been easy.

[efhondakid]

The next question is what did you pay for it? Haha

[Joseph Farrow]

Kinda looks like a Bassani pipe.
Cool find.

[MCATVME]

The next question is what did you pay for it? Haha

Ill just say it was a good deal for our area and for what it is.

[MCATVME]

Kinda looks like a Bassani pipe.
Cool find.

Any way to tell for sure? Is it stamped/has any markings to confirm this?

[atc300r]

Its 100% Bassani.I have one on my 85 250 r.Plus several members on AirFoolers.com have them on there 81-82 250 r.The silencer is the same style on all atc 250 r.

[MCATVME]

Its 100% Bassani.I have one on my 85 250 r.Plus several members on AirFoolers.com have them on there 81-82 250 r.The silencer is the same style on all atc 250 r.

That solves that question. Did they all have heat shields on them or was that added? Thanks

[atc300r]

85-86 Bassani pipes had and aluminum heat sheild.81-82 Bassani pipes had mounts for the stock heatshield to be used.

[MCATVME]

Can any buddy help out with the vin and the fact that the case is molded different? What about the fiberglass fenders? was that common?

[efhondakid]

Have you tried comparing it to the CR motors of that era? I'm pretty convinced it is a pre-production bike.

[atc300r]

Its looks to be an atc motor it has forward kickstart and counter balancer.Is there any serial # on the steering head or anywhere around it.It most definately not an 82 frame.

[MCATVME]

I could not find any numbers or markings on the custom adjustable neck mount or neck. Did find out that you can adjust rake and trail from what I see(I think). The 2 bolts in the middle can be removed and replaced with longer bolts to make adjustments.

[MCATVME]

Its looks to be an atc motor it has forward kickstart and counter balancer.Is there any serial # on the steering head or anywhere around it.It most definately not an 82 frame.

How can I figure out if its a 81 frame? Since you said it's not a 82.

[Bren_downe]

The 82 frame had air inlets at the steering neck and a square portion of frame over the airbox.

[bkm]

There are some funky stuff going on with this bike. What are those forks off of and I wonder why it has a disc rear, but drum front? Lots of unknown with this bike.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[83ATC185]

Cool find there!

Somebody somewhere knows something about this thing lol...

[Bren_downe]

There are some funky stuff going on with this bike. What are those forks off of and I wonder why it has a disc rear, but drum front? Lots of unknown with this bike.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
My initial thought was somebody got crafty while putting a 84 tecate front on his bike but the triples look a little different from what I found on eBay. I'm no tecate expert.

[MCATVME]

The 82 frame had air inlets at the steering neck and a square portion of frame over the airbox.

No square tube on this frame. 233407

[MCATVME]

There are some funky stuff going on with this bike. What are those forks off of and I wonder why it has a disc rear, but drum front? Lots of unknown with this bike.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I think the front is a 250r setup. They just switched the forks around and made a new mount for the drum setup. 233408

[MCATVME]

Cool find there!

Somebody somewhere knows something about this thing lol...

Just need to find that special someone....

[atc300r]

First pic 81 250r frame above airbox.Second pic 82 250r frame above airbox. 233413 233414

[YTZ drew]

Definitely a very neat trike. I wonder if the funky flange- mounted triple tree was someone's way of repairing a factory cut frame? A lot of machines got chopped when the ban went down. Maybe that machine was still owned by American Honda in 87?

[ATCT]

Very cool. Have you tried contacting any of the Factory guys here on the forums?

Interesting that it appears to have the original Dunlop 81-82 tires on it.

[83ATC185]

Any more updates on this trike?

[RamsesRibb]

Just piecing together the info I've seen indicates that this is a preproduction test machine that was likely used in actual races events before the design was finalized. AHM Special Projects is the development and testing wing of American Honda Motors. This is in all likelihood a very rare machine and it was probably supposed to be cut up and crushed back in the day to keep it from competitors.

[thestud25]

I have a set if rear fiberglass fenders for the air cooled 250r that are identical to yours. Can you take a pic without the seat, and the airbox lid?

[RamsesRibb]

I was thinking about that neck and remember one of the old team Honda guys talking about interchangeable neck mounts. I wonder if there where alternate neck brackets made for that bike with different degrees of rake?

[MCATVME]

Hi guys. I'll get pics tomorrow and hopefully we can get this figured out.

[Ghostv2]

Very cool. Have you tried contacting any of the Factory guys here on the forums?

Interesting that it appears to have the original Dunlop 81-82 tires on it.

Did you try what he suggested? Emailing, calling, trying to get in contact with anyone that might know still. It's a real long shot, but maybe there's still some old timer behind the desk that seen that thing produced and tested through R&D.

The story behind the piece makes all the difference.

[MCATVME]

I have a set if rear fiberglass fenders for the air cooled 250r that are identical to yours. Can you take a pic without the seat, and the airbox lid?

Here are some pics. There is no air box. 234079234084

[MCATVME]

Did you try what he suggested? Emailing, calling, trying to get in contact with anyone that might know still. It's a real long shot, but maybe there's still some old timer behind the desk that seen that thing produced and tested through R&D.

The story behind the piece makes all the difference.

I have not. I honestly would not know where to start. I'm hoping members here can help piece it together before I get ready to sell it.

[Ghostv2]

I have not. I honestly would not know where to start. I'm hoping members here can help piece it together before I get ready to sell it.

Good luck, I hope someone finds out its story, then you can also get what it's worth as a piece of history. It's a special piece, I'd love to see it brought back to racing condition.

I also hope someone around me gets it, would love to see to see it back on the track for breezewood next year with TRUPA.

[atc300r]

Rear fender is 81 250r.The airbox snorkeled into the the rear fender threw the oval hole.

[MCATVME]

Rear fender is 81 250r.The airbox snorkeled into the the rear fender threw the oval hole.

Who made them out of fiberglass back then?

[Mickey Dunlap]

I sent some of the pics to Wess McCoy my old boss at Honda, but he hasn't talk to me since I showed up on the cover of Dirt Wheels last year with my Team Honda 200x, I don't think he like some of the stories I told of my days racing for him/ Honda. If he does get back to me I'll share what he says. I bet it's a pre production or R&D bike.

[MCATVME]

I sent some of the pics to Wess McCoy my old boss at Honda, but he hasn't talk to me since I showed up on the cover of Dirt Wheels last year with my Team Honda 200x, I don't think he like some of the stories I told of my days racing for him/ Honda. If he does get back to me I'll share what he says. I bet it's a pre production or R&D bike.

Sweet Mickey. Thanks for the help. Any body know how to price this thing for resale? I'm open to offers or suggestions.

[efhondakid]

Sweet Mickey. Thanks for the help. Any body know how to price this thing for resale? I'm open to offers or suggestions.

If it something special it's hard to put a price on. It's really what say a collector or someone like that would be willing to pay for it. It would be a shame if it doesn't go to someone who knows what it is, just because it more than likely should have been crushed/chopped.

[thestud25]

Here are some pics. There is no air box. 234079234084

Yep, same as mine.

[MCATVME]

Yep, same as mine.

So who made out of fiberglass?

[Mickey Dunlap]

Sundahl was making fenders in 83' but I would say from the sticker under the front fender Honda R&D made those.

I don't think McCoy is going to get back to me, his last post on his page was from Jan. 1st 2016, so he seen my message I sent him back in 2015. And I don't think any other Team Honda racers from back then are on Fase Book anymore either.

[kiser]

Very cool bike! Keep us posted if you find out anymore info on it.

[fabiodriven]

As a very wise man once said, "Holy shlt sticks!"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RamsesRibb]

I bet nobody thought this thing would pop up like this. Who knows what else is out there? I hope this one gets treated right and refurbished. Definitely museum worthy.

[efhondakid]

I bet nobody thought this thing would pop up like this. Who knows what else is out there? I hope this one gets treated right and refurbished. Definitely museum worthy.

My thoughts exactly. To see it go to some trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotr ailpro that doesn't know it holds some sort of significant history in the world of racing and just roaches it out would be terrible.

[MCATVME]

So we are in the process of trying to get this thing running. We pulled the rotor to check things out and found the following. Rotor has 2 key ways and 2 set of timing marks. It also has a hand engraved number on it 9306. Any idea way it has 2 key ways and 2 sets of timing marks? Pics enclosed. 234470234471234472234473234474

[MCATVME]

We also pulled the reed cage to check them and found this 234475234476 any idea what reeds those are?

[atc300r]

The reeds look stock.The flywheel has me scratching my head.Plus these air cooled Rs you can advance the timing with the slots in the stator.

[HondaRidr]

I don't think those are stock reeds are they?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[MCATVME]

We got it running!!! Sounds nice with exhaust. The reeds we have not been able to find out if there stock yet or not.

[Ghostv2]

We got it running!!! Sounds nice with exhaust. The reeds we have not been able to find out if there stock yet or not.

I think a video is next on the list then. ;)

[ctk]

Good to see this machine coming back to life.