Noisey 200 engine

[SteveRoll]

Hi guys, just finished my 200M build, very happy with how it turned out. I got it running perfect, through some new fuel, lil bit of seafoam in the tank and it runs strong. Took it for a spin and am liking how everything works. The only thing concerning me is that the top end sounds a little noisey. Small rattly noise / ticky type of nice thats continuous.
Where do i go from here? do i need to check / adjust the valves? What about the timing chain? I am not sure how to do it yet, will look through the manual. Is it very simple, and anything else recommended? I just gave the bike a 10w40 oil change using castrol motorcycle oil.

Cheers

[RodKnockRacing]

Also check your oil pump and make sure your getting proper oil flow to the top end

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[SteveRoll]

Also check your oil pump and make sure your getting proper oil flow to the top end

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How is that done? Much too checking oil flow to the top end? Thanks.. nice name by the way im sure youll come in handy here lol

[Homeless Dave]

I have never encountered a honda 185 or 200 that did not have some top end tick. I would bet money on the cam chain being loose, they have to be manually adjusted. Ill post a link to a good youtube video that shows how to do it. Ill also post the video of valve adjustment. They are both fro a 200s, but the adjustments are the same. The only change from the 200s to the 200m is the electric start.

cam chain- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAblGUpxBqM
valve adjustment- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHeIXalJ9N8

[SteveRoll]

I have never encountered a honda 185 or 200 that did not have some top end tick. I would bet money on the cam chain being loose, they have to be manually adjusted. Ill post a link to a good youtube video that shows how to do it. Ill also post the video of valve adjustment. They are both fro a 200s, but the adjustments are the same. The only change from the 200s to the 200m is the electric start.

cam chain- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAblGUpxBqM
valve adjustment- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHeIXalJ9N8

Perfect thanks alot, just skimmed through the manual too, I might need to get one of those offset wrenchs. This bike i've been fixing up was parked for 25 years so it is definitely in need on some maintenance.
I just went through the bike and painted the frame, and got the brakes and stuff working. I need to find a mini inline fuel filter, tried using a lawnmower size one but its too big and clunky to fit there properly.

How is the oil to top end tested? Don't see that mentioned in the manual.

[RodKnockRacing]

Service manual will come in handy the oil pump process is a little involved. In my opinion ever 200 pump should be service with new o rings and gasket and cleaned, rotor, gear, and shaft checked. If not and it's not flowing u will destroy your entire cylinder head. To check flow some people loosen the back right cylinder head nut while engine is running, and see if oil is coming. I just pull the front valve cap and shine a light you should see oil. If you see gray metallic oil. Is a sign of no flow or improper flow. Hope This helps

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[SteveRoll]

Excellent thanks, Will do this all tomorrow and report back to what i find! Super pumped to start riding this week, just want to make sure the bike is fully up to par before i hit all the trails.

[Homeless Dave]

+1 on making sure the top end is oiling. Got a lt125 that didn't oil and the cam bearings were destroyed. it was so bad when the engine turned over it sounded like rod knock, but it was the camshaft flopping around!
Ill get some pictures of it tomorrow.

[RodKnockRacing]

+1 on making sure the top end is oiling. Got a lt125 that didn't oil and the cam bearings were destroyed. it was so bad when the engine turned over it sounded like rod knock, but it was the camshaft flopping around!
Ill get some pictures of it tomorrow.Yep been there before with my first 200x build over 10 years ago it's how I learned

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[ATC King]

That was a great YouTube link for the camchain adjustment. The guy's speech is clear, the camera work is steady and focused enough, and he gets right to the point, but most importantly, he covers what many people new to the 185/200 ATCs would have no clue about if they followed the manual. Probably the #1 thing not cleared up by most owners who are otherwise on spot with maintenance.

[SteveRoll]

Yeah the links are great. I'm trying to track down one of those offset wrenchs for the valves and also the 3mmx0.5 bolt needed. Found one but its too short. Otherwise it looks pretty simple to do, funny how the valves are checked by feel mainly, was hoping to get my feeler gauges dirty haha

[Homeless Dave]

you don't have to have specialty tools do adjust valves. a regular open end wrench will work. You can use feeler gauges to set valves, it will be more accurate. As for the bolt, i took the taillight lens screw out of a junk kawasaki kz motorcycle and it worked, not sure if it was the original screw though (it had 2 different screws holding it on). One thing to be careful of, is when you take the flywheel timing cover off, dont strip out the top of it. Those covers have often been on for years and like to stick, so be mindful of that.

I also promised some top end destruction pictures...

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[SteveRoll]

Well, can’t get that flat head inspection cover off. Doesn’t want to budge. Not really sure what to use, the flathead screwdriver is small compared to it. Tried using a wide Chiesel but no Luck lol. I popped the valve covers and there’s lots of oil visible in there without the bike even running.

[Homeless Dave]

You can find top dead center another way. Rather than removing the cover, you can take out the spark plug and remove the valve adjustment covers. Then, get a piece of wire (or anything long and thin) and insert it into the spark pug hole. Turn the engine over by hand until you can feel the wire get to the highest point, make sure that neither valve is open (should be able to feel the free play in the rocker arms). This should get you to the point of being able to adjust the valves, however, i recommend trying to get the cover off before resorting to this. For trying to get the covers off, i have a wide wood working chisel that i ground the edge off of so it is flat and it works really good.

If you are super desperate, get a small hammer and tap on the cover (be very gentle, you can shatter them..) and then try to unscrew it, i have had luck with that before.

[SteveRoll]

You can find top dead center another way. Rather than removing the cover, you can take out the spark plug and remove the valve adjustment covers. Then, get a piece of wire (or anything long and thin) and insert it into the spark pug hole. Turn the engine over by hand until you can feel the wire get to the highest point, make sure that neither valve is open (should be able to feel the free play in the rocker arms). This should get you to the point of being able to adjust the valves, however, i recommend trying to get the cover off before resorting to this. For trying to get the covers off, i have a wide wood working chisel that i ground the edge off of so it is flat and it works really good.

If you are super desperate, get a small hammer and tap on the cover (be very gentle, you can shatter them..) and then try to unscrew it, i have had luck with that before.
Okay will try this tomorrow, got a lil mad at it earlier and gave up haha. For a simple job i didn't expect to get held up on step one. I'll grind down a chiesel or piece of flatbar or something. It was probably never off before. I gave it a few good smacks earlier and tried twisting but no go. Valve covers were not very tight, didn't even have to put much pretty to spin them loose. I was thinking i needed the special tool for adjusting the valves but after looking at it earlier, it's pretty easy to access.

[SteveRoll]

Well guys, I guess im stuck. Can’t get the timing inspection plug out. Tried a bunch of things, tried a big chiesel, screwdrivers, piece of flat bar, etc. It just strips and doesn’t want to budge. Also tried to remove the cdi cover screws, one came out. The other wants to strip. Tried shocking it with a hammer a few times but doesn’t want to budge. Most likely this bike wasn’t touched in years. It was parked for 25 years, I’d say valves need to be adjusted and the timing chain. Very bummed out, I just restored the bike only to be held up with this. Pretty sure that plug is aluminum, which means I can’t really weld a nut to it.

[SteveRoll]

Update:
Okay guys, rebumping this thread because i've been busy over the last two weeks and never poked the bike until just now again.

Just managed to open the timing inspection cover (the flat head plug) After multiple tries, I eventually got it to spin loose after whacks at different angles with a hammer.
Funny part is on my 200M I cannot see any timings such as F or T or any of that on my 200M. In the video the guy is working on a 200S and the timing marks are clear. On my 200M theres like a black plastic piece you can see and no visible timing marks. It actually surprised me when it didn't look like the video. So I cant go off that for setting the valves.

I tried to pop off the CDI cover again, left phillip screw came out, the right one won't budge. Im gonna get a torch tomorrow or something. I snapped off my screwdriver, literally. It didn't strip fully, but just snapped my screwdriver clean off haha... So i Cannot go off those timing marks either...

I did run the bike up, let it warm up a bit so it idled then adjusted the cam tensioner like in the video. Free'd it up and then pulled up and tightened the lock nut. The top end is still noisey, I am thinking valves for sure need to be adjusted. I took the bike for a spin around the yard, it runs great.
I popped off the valve cover on the front and oil was shooting out at me, so i am assuming its getting lots of oil pressure.

I own a 200E big red as well and that engine is very quiet. I am just going off my big red as a reference, the 200M is a bit noisey for sure.

Made a video, what do you guys think is wrong with it ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL7KlUS8Mr4&feature=youtu.be

[Gabriel]

That's (one of) the difference in a wet stator and a dry stator. Dry stator flywheels are easier to see. The inspection plug on wet stator models seems very poorly placed. You CAN see the marks but it's not easy and even harder to get an accurate timing light on one.
Can't win them all...even with a Honda.

Also....why do you need to see the timing marks to set the valves? If you can get the cover plugs out to set the valves, just watch the opposite valve. When the exhaust is wide open....pretty safe bet the intake is not. If it is, you got bigger problems. LOL. Just be sure the opposing valve is all the way down to account for any overlap.

[SteveRoll]

That's (one of) the difference in a wet stator and a dry stator. Dry stator flywheels are easier to see. The inspection plug on wet stator models seems very poorly placed. You CAN see the marks but it's not easy and even harder to get an accurate timing light on one.
Can't win them all...even with a Honda.

Also....why do you need to see the timing marks to set the valves? If you can get the cover plugs out to set the valves, just watch the opposite valve. When the exhaust is wide open....pretty safe bet the intake is not. If it is, you got bigger problems. LOL. Just be sure the opposing valve is all the way down to account for any overlap.
I'll have another look but its incredibly hard to see any timing marks. I am trying to correct the top end engine noise like in the video i linked. Its not the timing chain, so possibly valves or maybe the piston. I just wouldnt want the engine to grenade on me when it possibly could have been prevented.
From my understanding of engines valves are supposed to be adjusted at TDC ( top dead centre) that way both valves are closed and can be adjusted at the same time. Basically the compression stroke. I never adjusted valves on a simple little Honda before but have on some big engines.