200X Burnt Valve or What?

[Dizzo]

So i Just put a Decompression Lever head on my 200x so i could use the electric starter, because the kick start spring broke. Well, all seemed well at first when it was cranking and then started. ran it for about 5-10 minutes, then, it stalled abruptly. Tried to electric start, no luck, tried to kick start, there was a lot of resistance when i kicked it. I jumped it after it cooled down a little, and it seemed OK till it fired, then it stall instantly and then it had the same HIGH resistance and didn't sound very good as it turned over. My thought is that maybe i didnt set the decompression lever to reset back far enough, and maybe it... burnt a valve?

Please help..
OH what to do???

[factoryX]

come on at least let him know if he blew it up or not geez...

[WIkid500]

Sounds like something other than a burnt valve. When a valve is "burnt" it lets compression by when it's not supposed to, this would lead to very little to no compression when kicking. Sounds to me like you have a bearing problem somewhere.

[Howdy]

Sounds like the top end might have gotten starved for oil and seized the cam. I have seen this a lot of times and almost every time silicon was used during installation.
Howdy

[Dizzo]

seized cam, huh? Great. Well, that's better new then burnt valve. I've never burnt a valve before, so i didn't think i would lose compression, but that makes sense.

What is still odd, is after it cooled for a minute it cranked fine, till it tried to fire, then stall, then it was tight again.

Well, I'm gonna rip the valve cap of in a few, maybe howdy can check if he has a cam for me, just in case....:rolleyes:

I'll make sure NOT to use silicone putting the cap on when its ready.

[Dirtcrasher]

Actually burnt valves might be a better situation.....

When the cam seizes, it ruins the aluminum journals and the whole head has to be replaced. Fortunately, you should be able to get another head pretty easy and reasonable here....

[SWIGIN]

check your oil pump before throwing parts at it

[Dizzo]

well, got her apart, valves are good, Cam bushing seized up but not completely. So it didnt spin in the journal. I noticed some minor marring on the sprocket side of the cam journal. DOnt know if that was there before this, and not sure if i should get a new, used head. I am poor, so most parts will be used. Oil is making its way to the top, but she may have just been ready to go, or i got some silicone in it.

Lesson learned.

Any one have a cam, bushing, and/or head for sale??? used and cheap please.

Wink Wink, Howdy

[Erics350x]

I have a nice cam, busing, and head from a 85 200x. I might also have a nice 200e head if it isn't sold already, i'll have to check and see which head Allen wants. Make offer.

[oscarmayer]

i'm jsut replace the head. you can get a good used 200s head off ebay for about $40 shipped. it will most likley be in running condition and you just drop and go.

[Dizzo]

Oooo, looky, Here's what I've found.

Ebay Head (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-ATC200-ATC-200-81-Engine-Head-cam-076619_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q 3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c29 3Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZi tem290280188257QQitemZ290280188257QQptZMotorcycles Q5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_6590wt_1065)


Whatcha Think?

[Howdy]

Oooo, looky, Here's what I've found.

Ebay Head (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-ATC200-ATC-200-81-Engine-Head-cam-076619_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q 3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c29 3Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZi tem290280188257QQitemZ290280188257QQptZMotorcycles Q5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_6590wt_1065)


Whatcha Think?

Don't look bad, how ever I think you should be able to do better here on the forums ( saving money ). I need to check what I have available.
Howdy

[greenhuman]

Did you locate the end cam bush properly in the head before you put the rocker cover on? If the pin on the outside of the cam bush is not in the right spot in the head, the rocker cover will squash the bush onto the cam and cause it to sieze on the cam after a short while.

[Dizzo]

Should i post a WTB thread or wait to see if anyone reads this and offers something?

I'l like the head to be complete (valves and all) I f anyone who asked me to make any offer can beat that ebay deal, let me know, please.

[Dizzo]

Did you locate the end cam bush properly in the head before you put the rocker cover on? If the pin on the outside of the cam bush is not in the right spot in the head, the rocker cover will squash the bush onto the cam and cause it to sieze on the cam after a short while.

I didnt have the cam out. but, yes, yes the pin was in the detent, it was not damaged. i used silicone, like an idiot and i believe she starved for oil and seized. too many wheelies couldnt be the cause....:rolleyes:

[WIkid500]

Dizzo just for future reference when you put your new rocker cover on use some anaerobic sealer. That stuff if made to only seal when there is no oxygen present and it won't harden in the oil passage to the cam.

[Dizzo]

anaerobic sealer? Thats new to me. Something they sell at the honda shop?

[Howdy]

Should i post a WTB thread or wait to see if anyone reads this and offers something?

I'l like the head to be complete (valves and all) I f anyone who asked me to make any offer can beat that ebay deal, let me know, please.

I would post a wanted ad to at least get more users to see it. That should result in more offers and better deals. ;)
Howdy

[Dizzo]

ok Thanx. Let me know if you have anything at your shop.

[Yamada]

You had me worried. When I rebuilt my 200e I put red hi-temp silicone betwenn the head and the valve cover. It only took 15 minutes of running to blow your top end, mine has now a couple hours of riding.

[honda_atc200es]

why is silicone needed for instalation anyways? just replace all your gaskets, new bolts, and toque properly.

[Howdy]

ok Thanx. Let me know if you have anything at your shop.

I will do that.

For a cheap and very good sealant try going to the auto store and pick up some brush on "Hi-Tack" sealant. The stuff is great.
Here is what a large can looks like:
http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-80063-Gasket-Sealant-GROUND/dp/B00137M4T4

You can get smaller cans for $4-$6 at Napa.
Howdy

[Howdy]

why is silicone needed for instalation anyways? just replace all your gaskets, new bolts, and toque properly.

There isn't a gasket on the top cap, just machined surfaces. So you must use some sort of sealant to keep it from leaking. I know some people use yamabond with good results, but I have never used it.
Howdy

[Dizzo]

why is silicone needed for instalation anyways? just replace all your gaskets, new bolts, and toque properly.

i normally would use gaskets, but, i know the previous owner and he had never had the valve cap off, so when i removed it and found no gasket, i assumed it was like my streetbike, which has no gasket, it requires silicone, not a gasket.


Just noticed the manual.

[honda_atc200es]

wow, never noticed the 85's looked so different from the 86-87's

[WIkid500]

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=401068+317372&autoview=sku


There is the Anaerobic sealer, use it sparingly and you should have no problems. I read somewhere Yamabond should be used very sparingly too if used.

[Howdy]

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=401068+317372&autoview=sku


There is the Anaerobic sealer, use it sparingly and you should have no problems. I read somewhere Yamabond should be used very sparingly too if used.

That stuff looks good, but I stilllike Hi-Tack myself. To each their own. ;)
Howdy

[seddon]

i was told that 3 bond was what they used form the factory or like what they used

[Dizzo]

I posted a classified thread, and I was informed the ebay listing i posted was for a head that may not perform as well, since its not for the 200x. Anyone if this is true?

[Dirtcrasher]

There's nothing wrong with ANY of the sealants available, it's all personal preferance.......

You just can't over do it. Remember, you are mating 2 perfectly flat surfaces that don't need a wide bead of sealant, it will squash right out and into places you don't want....

Just a single thin bead of sealant is all it takes.

The even bigger problem is when people lose the rubber plug in the topend oil hole. When things are machined, like oil galleries, you end up with the drills access hole that you don't want because it will lose pressure. Thats where the rubber plug goes and plenty of peoplem leave that plug out because they don't understand it's purpose.

[seddon]

The even bigger problem is when people lose the rubber plug in the topend oil hole. When things are machined, like oil galleries, you end up with the drills access hole that you don't want because it will lose pressure. Thats where the rubber plug goes and plenty of peoplem leave that plug out because they don't understand it's purpose.[/QUOTE]


when i first start working on these things i never knew what it was left it out a few times with no problem at all i thought it was just silcone bulid up or some thing

[Dizzo]

I thought i put a thin enough coating of sealant on it. I also made sure to leave the plug in. I didn't find and sealant in any oil holes or anywhere it shouldn't be. It was probably just its time to go. Usually all i do in the summer months is wheelies, so i'm not all that surprised.

[Howdy]

I posted a classified thread, and I was informed the ebay listing i posted was for a head that may not perform as well, since its not for the 200x. Anyone if this is true?

To get the best performance you will need to stick with a 200x head and cam, the top cap can be for 185-200 as it doesn't effect performance.
Howdy

[Dizzo]

Well now Im hoping you have something at your shop... while you're looking, see if you have a lighting stator, same machine. Please.

[oscarmayer]

that looks to be a good ebay head. for $49 that's a decent deal to get it complete with cam too. if i needed one, i'd buy it for sure.

guys the heads are EXACTLY the same. all he woudl need is a 200x cam to get the 200x performance. the 200s/e/es/x are the SAME head castings. only the 200x (some did not have a decompression lever) has the performance factory cam. so all he would need is a 200x cam.

my other concern is the piston. did you pull the piston down to BDC and checl the cyclidner walls for damage and scoring when it got hot?

[Dizzo]

my other concern is the piston. did you pull the piston down to BDC and checl the cyclidner walls for damage and scoring when it got hot?

I did check the cylinder walls, They looked great. No scoring or discoloration. Thanks for the info on the heads. I'll try to find a 200x cam and maybe get that ebay head if no one else responds to my classified. Too bad no one has a webcam laying around, I'm not trying to make a speed machine, but since in in there, maybe a cam would be in the budget...

Ive found an 1988 xr 200 cam on ebay, that would be comparable to the 200x cam, wouldnt it?

[DIGGER DOG]

I may have a head and cam but Ill have to pull the engine from the frame well actually Ill have to get the whole thing from my mother inlaws house to my house
a few acres away,dont know what the condition is as I have to dissassemble and It wont be any time soon as I have to go to a kawajunkie update seminar in Atlanta monday Ill be leaving in a few hours today so the earliest I could look at what ive got would be next week end ??

[Dizzo]

Im gonna try to drive up to sandpuppies shop tomorow. I'll let you know if i still need you to look. thanks digger

[Erics350x]

I have a 200e head and a 200x head right in front of me and they are alittle different. Anyway if you need one just let me know.

[DIGGER DOG]

no problem Dizzo