any engine builders here?

[MudBug]

ever since i rebuilt my 2 bolt main 350 tbi in my 88 chevy ive been interested in building something with more power. lots of research and asking experienced guys have me thinking about this build for the winter. I want this to be a fast little street truck that sounds mean as hell and I can run the quarter mile here in town when possible.

start with a 4 bolt main 350 block, bored .60 over with dome-top aluminum pistons, roller high lift cam, forged rods (not stroked), new crank(still undecided) 327 heads or vortec heads, some sort of performance intake with a 650ccm holley or edelbrock carb. and to top it all off, run it on propane (cheap to drive around all day and super reliable with the right set-up)

im hoping to make 400 - 450 hp with a turbo 400 tranny behind it. diff and driveshaft will come soon afterward i imagine

[MTS]

Might want too look into a later model 98 97, 5.7 vortech to start with...cheap and plentifull easy to swap over...i run a 98 in my 82 half ton with the edlebrock intake and 650cfm edlebrock carb...stock fulie roller cam....runs real good half decent milage with a 4 speed and 3.73 gear. Next swap is a new cam and roller top end to take advantage of the carb...people claim 400+ with some valve spring work for the big stick, just a option i thought i would mention, best of luck

[Slingblade]

Might even want to look a little newer than that.^ I was thinking along the same lines as you with my 83 Chevy. But instead I went with a 5.3 LS engine and 4l60e trans. from an 01 Silverado and I absolutely love it.

It's actually a pretty easy swap and the parts needed are readily available. Tons of info on the net as far as wiring and harness work goes. I bought my engine from a wrecked truck, $500. That included harness, PCM and

accesories. I could have run it as is, but... I went through it, new bearings, rings, updated LS3 lifters, etc. 120k and it still had cross hatch marks in the cylinders, I know- I couldnt believe it either.

I put a small Comp cam, (.563 Lift is small for an LS), set of Long Tubes, Had it tuned and I'm guessing 340-350 HP at the crank. No Dyno runs or track time yet, May never be.. 3.42 Gears, And 20+ mpg if you drive right.

A 5.3 (325 CI) is basically 300 HP in stock form. If your looking for even more potential the 6.0 from a 1500hd or 2500 is the same swap. I've heard the stock bottom ends will handle 1,000 HP.

I don't know how running on propane would figure in. There is a carb intake and MSD box available for the LS now, just not cheap.

I've built my share of SB Chevy's over the years but honestly these new engines are incredible. A junkyard pull-out with the right cam swap, set of headers, a good tune will put you close to 400- real, honest HP.

Just an idea. Good Luck.

[ezmoney1979]

I have a 2003 Silverado with a 4.8 and its a great little V-8, 180,000 miles and not a problem. I like Slingblades idea. Here is an article about how bulletproof they are- http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/h...g_bang_theory/

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Although I am not an expert in street stuff. I will say the new generation GM smallblocks are awesome engines. I traded in my 01 Silverado with the iron block 5.3 with 155k on it. The engine and transmission were still strong as ever but the body and frame was rotting around it. My '06 I have now is the aluminum block version with factory claims of 310hp over the old iron blocks 295.

As far as those 5.3/6.0's being able to handle 1000hp, I'm really not surprised. I hear tell from several different people that those new gen GM smallblocks have 6 bolt mains. I have always wondered if it is possible/feasible to de-computerize one of these engines and what they would be capable of.....

[bkm]

I agree on the LS based engines. Chevy finally had to clone the small block Ford and decided to make some real power. And for those that think I'm full of B.S., I suggest you do some research before you make that accusation.

[Slingblade]

^ You blue oval guys kill me. Some of the fastest fox bodies are now running LS Chevy motors and the Ford purists are just crushed, so they say things like that^. Easy Bryan, I'm just kidding.

You are exactly right about the similarities in the new gen sbc and old sbf. (A Ford guy pointed them out to me). Front engine oiling, Head bolt placement, firing order- just to name a few.

I love it, They took the best things about a lot of engines and made (arguably) the best production pushrod V-8 ever. Crack one open and you'll see its not an old SBC or SBF, It is a whole new animal.

A super stout bottom end with big, beefy 4 bolt main caps with 2 cross bolts through the block. Add some big, aluminum heads that flow like crazy, (Give it a little piston slap noise just for fun) And control it all with a simple,

easily tuneable (to some - not me) Engine control module. I like that recipe. Horsepower, reliability, and longevity. And probably still cheaper to work on than a small block Ford., Just sayin.

[cr480r]

start with a 4 bolt main 350 block, bored .60 over with dome-top aluminum pistons, roller high lift cam, forged rods (not stroked), new crank(still undecided) 327 heads or vortec heads, some sort of performance intake with a 650ccm holley or edelbrock carb. and to top it all off, run it on propane (cheap to drive around all day and super reliable with the right set-up)

You dont need 4blt mains at that power level. You shouldnt bore to +.060 unless you really need to. You dont want domed piston tops with vortec heads, stroke it or use a 400 block if you cant get enough compression with 2 valve relief flat tops and a tight quench. You would likely need a dual quad manifold if you are serious about using propane because you would likely need dual mixers to really feed 400hp. turbo 400's eat hp.. i wouldnt use it at those power levels unless you already have it. Even though it seems expensive, as said above, seriously consider an LS engine if you want the most for your money. Or if thats too much to tackle, then just put some vortec or other small aftermarket heads on a well prepped stock bottom end with good rod bolts, some hyper flat-tops, and choose a cam that actually works with your combo(converter, gearing, etc) these are fun budget engines, things get expensive fast beyond that...

[bkm]

^ You blue oval guys kill me. Some of the fastest fox bodies are now running LS Chevy motors and the Ford purists are just crushed, so they say things like that^. Easy Brian, I'm just kidding.

You are exactly right about the similarities in the new gen sbc and old sbf. (A Ford guy pointed them out to me). Front engine oiling, Head bolt placement, firing order- just to name a few.

I love it, They took the best things about a lot of engines and made (arguably) the best production pushrod V-8 ever. Crack one open and you'll see its not an old SBC or SBF, It is a whole new animal.

A super stout bottom end with big, beefy 4 bolt main caps with 2 cross bolts through the block. Add some big, aluminum heads that flow like crazy, (Give it a little piston slap noise just for fun) And control it all with a simple,

easily tuneable (to some - not me) Engine control module. I like that recipe. Horsepower, reliability, and longevity. And probably still cheaper to work on than a small block Ford., Just sayin.

I'm a ford guy for the most part(I've owned them all) and I absolutely love the LS engines. Its pretty hard to argue the results that have been obtained with the LS platform. I'm a pushrod guy so for me its an LS engine.

[Mosh]

Chevy finally had to clone the small block Ford and decided to make some real power. And for those that think I'm full of B.S., I suggest you do some research before you make that accusation.

That is like saying, Ford copied GM's Dual Cv front axle and A-arm suspension on their smaller trucks and SUV's and dumped that rediculous I beam set-up...LOL

[bkm]

That is like saying, Ford copied GM's Dual Cv front axle and A-arm suspension on their smaller trucks and SUV's and dumped that rediculous I beam set-up...LOL

So I guess GM redesigned an all new pushrod V8 that just happened to have nearly identical bore spacing that is .002 difference, headbolt pattern, port layout(not design), center thrust bearing design, ect, as the sbf and it was all by chance? I think not. If you think that these manufactures don't study other maker's designs and tweak them enough to get around patent's, your fooling yourself.

Are they identical, absolutely not, in fact they are very different in a lot of area's. But if you don't think they ressemble a sbf more than any other engine out there, then you must be looking with your eye's closed. GM took several strong points of the sbf and vastly improved the design and made a superior pushrod engine that is running circles around much more hi-tech OHC engines using 60 year old technology.

I'm not sure who the fist bike manufacturer was to come out with the power valve engine, but that would be like saying they all designed them all at the same time and no other company copied from one another.

[Mosh]

Take er easy there..I never said they didnt borrow some ideas..I only stated that Ford does the same thing..I am a tech in the field since the early 90's..You don't think they all copy someone? They do..I know that..It's not that they copied per say..Some copy and make a less desireable product in the end, others refine a design. It is no secret that the Govt forced everyone to go OBD 2 based off GM's systems..Why? Gm worked with NASA in the 70's- 80's to get that technology. Ford guys hated OBD2 when it came out..GM guys hated the old EEC systems Ford used..In reality, IMO, Ford has not built a good engine since the 80's old based smallblocks..Those stupid Triton motors were/are junk..If the plugs aint blowing out the heads, the manifolds are falling off..They made a block and head design that virtually all needed re decked when the head gaskets failed. Which in the field = non servicable, and planned obsolescence.
I have more reason to believe that the "GM copied Ford" thing is more of a manufactured idea/excuse for the GM haters out there. We all know that Ford's 9 inch diff was the shiznet and found it's way into a slew of GM vehicles..But we never saw GM copy it did we?

[bkm]

Absolutely they all do the same thing as far as copying, but this was a discussion on engines, not suspensions or ecm systems. They all have designed junk and some more than others and will agree with you 100% on what you have said, there is no debate there as far as I'm concerned. I know your knowlege and tenure in the field and know that you are a great mechanic, that was never in question.

My statement was also accurate as far as the design of the LS based engines. A lot of Chevy guys can't handle the truth when it comes to the similarities and I was taking a little jab there. As a Ford guy running many different sbf combo's over the years I've had my as$ handed to me on several ocassions by a Chevy with a LS based engine. The difference between me and the other guys is that I had no probelm with it because I have admiration for the LS based engine. I have also owned a couple pretty nasty sbc and ls based cars.

If you tell the average self proclaimed sbf guru the out of the box specs of the L98 head and then tell him how many cubic iches you plan on running with that head, but fail to mention that this is an "out of the box" production head from GM, he will tell you that it is an all out race head and cannot be run on any street engine. Yet GM uses these heads in trucks that require tourque. This is the reason the Ford guy get his ass handed to him by the LS guy.

[dcreel]

They all stole Variable Valve Timing from Honda...

[MudBug]

I dont know guys i was kinda hoping to stay with the old sbc platform since its what im familiar with. might be hard where i am to find harnesses and electrical for a vortec besides. great opinions though thanks a lot