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Thread: When did learning become insulting?

  1. #1
    fabiodriven's Avatar
    fabiodriven is offline Aspiring romance novel cover model, and the Official 3WW slayer of thieves and swindlers. Catch me if you can
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    Angry When did learning become insulting?

    I will apologize ahead of time for the rant boys, but if you don't want to read it you don't have to.

    I have this problem with people that seems to be reoccurring. It's happening more and more to the point where I've questioned if I'm the problem, but I know that's not the case. I don't understand why it is that people are insulted when you try to teach them something these days. I'm not referencing this place in particular, although I see it plenty on here. I also have this problem with people face-to-face as well.

    On here it happens like this- Somebody asks a question. They are trying to fix something or maybe they've got an idea in their head that they're feeling out before they grab the torches and the welder. One would assume the reason they're asking a question is to gain knowledge or to learn from someone else's experience. The problem arises when somebody who is experienced in what they are attempting to learn about replies and the knowledge is taken as an insult or disregarded. Why? Why is it an insult when someone who knows more about a subject than you attempts to answer your question or to guide you? Why ask the question if you're not going to listen to the answer? It has gotten to the point on here where I have debated on not posting at all outside of our local ride thread. That's easier said then done for me though. I have a lot of spare time at work.

    I take on a new kid at work to help out here. I do heavy truck inspections. He doesn't know what a king pin is, or a ball joint, a tie rod end, or a leaf spring. I'm starting from scratch. I took him under my wing and showed him what these components are, how they work, what they're like when they're worn out, and how they fail. At least I attempted to. Every time I try to show this kid something he starts talking before I can finish a sentence. He's trying to finish my thoughts and he is dead wrong 100% of the time. It got to the point a couple months back where he actually got mad at me when I was trying to teach him something and it turned into a big issue. Not only was it not a big issue, and not even a small issue, it was absolutely nothing that he got fired up about. He ended up getting chewed out by the owner and almost got fired because he wanted to argue about how a certain cord was being wrapped up on the inspection machine.

    Even my own girlfriend I have these issues with. I'm 33 and she's 27 so there is a slight generation gap there, but it drives me nuts. I don't force her to learn things, she wants to know. Then when I go to show her she gets mad at me. I had to teach her how to use the wood stove in my house. It's something she has to know and she also wanted to know. It's our primary source of heat. I tried to explain to her how the dampers work, what kinds of woods do what, what to do and what not to do, etc... She got mad at me and said to forget it, she won't touch it. I had to explain to her that our home and our lives are on the line with this. It's serious stuff! But she'd rather get angry and not learn anything rather than simply listening to what I'm telling her and educate herself. Why? I've been heating houses with wood for over 20 years. Why not listen to somebody who's very educated in this field?

    Customers come into my shop and ask me why their car is making this noise or not doing something it's supposed to, so I begin to explain. It amazes me how many times I start to explain something to somebody and they cut me off within the first 5 seconds of my explanation. Then I just stop. If they don't want to listen to the answer to the question they just asked me, that's their loss.

    I was at a swap meet a couple weekends ago when a friendly camper neighbor came over to our site to chat. He had an old Dodge motorhome that he was very proud of and he obviously liked talking about. Now, in my book, a conversation goes like this- First you talk and I listen, then I talk and you listen, repeat. Very simple. After this guy talked for about 5 minutes straight about his motorhome, I started to tell him about one that I knew about that was local to me and in very good shape. It was virtually the same camper as his. Not only that, but it's for sale and it's priced very reasonably at $500. The engine alone is worth that! I got about 10 seconds into my sentence when he turned his back to me and started talking to someone else behind him. I was floored. HE came to MY site to talk to ME, then turned HIS back on ME the first time I tried to open my mouth. I didn't even get to tell him about the camper at all, let alone the fact that it was for sale at such a good price. Oh well, his loss.

    I can assure anyone who is asking themselves if I talk down to people that I do not. There are plenty of guys on this forum who know me personally and can tell you I don't talk down to people. Also, I do not claim to know it all. I'll be the first to admit when I don't know something. I am smart though, and I got that way from listening to what people who know things that I don't have told me. I gladly take their wisdom if they're kind enough to hand it down to me. Old people are the best for this. Sure, they can't drive worth a damn or do anything at a normal pace, but they've been there and they've done that before. It would be stupid to pass up the opportunity to take wisdom from someone who is willing to give it to you. It's free, why wouldn't you take it?

    It's no secret that I'm not happy with the direction this country is headed and some of my past rants are probably part of the reason so much I have to say gets dismissed so easily on here, but I'm not ashamed of how I feel nor am I afraid to speak my mind. I am afraid to share my wisdom now though, because it's so rarely appreciated. The vast majority of our population in the United States have been raised with far too much of a feeling of entitlement. Everyone thinks they're better than everyone else. They think they have the right to not be offended. People are too concerned with being offended or being made to think that somebody may know something that they don't (god forbid) to even realize the knowledge they are passing up.

    So thank you all for the knowledge you have passed to me over the years here on 3ww. I will continue to soak it in for years to come. From this point forward though, I can not promise I will return the favor. I am sick of this behavior both here and outside of here and I just can't stomach any more of it. I am going to make an honest effort to post less and thereby avoid the whole problem altogether. End of rant.
    Last edited by fabiodriven; 11-29-2012 at 01:08 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Ya know Fabio, you sound a lot like myself, we are also the same age. My wife (age 24) still won't listen to me on how to start "her" 450, shes always riding around, choke half on, or gas off, or trying to start with no choke, or. I have some of the same problems with people too, luckily my job doesnt require too much interaction with others. I am constantly biting my tongue and deleting posts I type out on here just to avoid some of the behavior you speak of. Hang in there buddy, its tough constantly being surrounded by idiots, even on the internet.


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  3. #3
    Mosh is offline I'm the one with all the 2 stroke around here! The day begins with 3WW
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    Let's see....about the same time as when:

    Oprah said "dont spank your kids"

    "everyone" got a trophy.. win lose or tie

    "the real world' on MTV, showcased whining as an oscar nomination and a way to be recognized

    The "Ten Commandments" where no longer allowed to be displayed at city hall

    It became rude, and inappropriate to say the "Pledge of Allegiance" but okay to witness same sex partners holding hands in a public park in front of your family that still adheres to sound moral values...

    I could go on..

    Even worse than all that, is when someone tries to steel credit for others work and accomplishments, and are hailed as a hero or supported and thanked by others who don't know the facts...
    Here is where my long useless list of stuff nobody cares about should go...


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  4. #4
    Cave Rider's Avatar
    Cave Rider is offline At The Back Of The Pack Arm chair racerAt the back of the pack
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    Amen to that. You are NOT alone...on my lunch now at the dealership and am currently involved in this scenario today..wish me luck,ive already used this Weeks worth of "deep breaths" up. And I still have a day to go.

  5. #5
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    Sadly, respect, manners, and possibly most importantly, humility are fading away from our society at a pretty rapid pace.

    Fab, I am about your age, going to be 35 in a couple months and I think as far as the rest of the population in our age group, people who think like us are sadly the minority and the gap is getting wider all the time. We live in a world of instant gratification the likes of which mankind has never experienced before in the past. Alot of people feel they are entitiled to this and that just because they breathe air.

    And I agree with what you say on learning from the "old timers"... I've done a fair bit of farm work as I was growing up and my best friends growing up were farmers. It's utterly mind blowing the amount of practical knowledge packed into the mind of a seasoned farmer. When my best friend's father died at the young age of 54 (lifelong farmer), aside from the normal grieving of the loss, I couldn't help but feel a little more life knowledge was also lost that will probably be lost forever. I could go on with little examples I took note of over the years, even as a fairly young kid. But I don't want to drag this out too far..

    But I think there IS hope to be had. We who still have a good moral compass and set of values can/should raise our children the way we were raised. It is the only way I see that has any hope of keeping some sense of principles and good citizenship alive. Even though it seems we are outnumbered....

    And I too am grateful for all the help and knowledge I have been the benficiary of here on 3WW.
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  6. #6
    gus's Avatar
    gus is offline Just Too Addicted Arm chair racerJust too addicted
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    I now what you mean fabio I'm 20 and I'm no where near what your trying to explain for my age. And its True There is no respect for anyone no more I get it here at work drives me nuts! . I was thought to always mind my manners and give respect to any one even if you don't now them. I was never tought to be stuck up to act like my chit don't stink you now? When people try to explain to me how things work by dam I listen to them 100% because that's how I learn. I always wait till there done talking or explaining to me.

  7. #7
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    So your telling me that brat that you were talking about a while back at your shop didnt get fired? Sorry to hear man.
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  8. #8
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    WTF Man? Are you depressed or something???

    Look, some of what you wrote here could be copy pasted into how me and others feel about some people at times. My wife and daughter match up to your GF pretty good. My wife has a Dr. in front of her name and a Masters as well, but she can’t pump her own gas and throws up her arms and walks away if I take more than 5 minutes to explain something she asked about. The kid is the same way at times, BUT when someone else is doing the teaching they are all ears and eyes and get A+’s. I can’t explain it, that’s just how it works. Think back to when your parents were trying to instill a lesson into your head, If you’re like me you didn’t actually hear what they said till about 10 years later.

    As far as other people, clients, posters, friends that don’t want an answer to the question they asked I have a personal motto that I’ve honed over the years, it goes like this: “Fu*k em”. Yes, it really is that simple. I try once and if it doesn’t seem to be what they want to hear I just say “Fu*k em” and move on. More often than not they come back to tell you that you were right.

    Why not just ask yourself prior to giving advice on something if the person really wants to know everything you do? I use this with my wife, friends and co-workers now. When they ask a question that I feel requires a detailed answer I say “Do you want the Readers Digest version, or the whole thing?”, or “I can answer that if you want, but it’s going to take more than 5 minutes, do you still want to know?” Lots of time they just laugh and say “Tell me what you would do and not why” or “Let me call you back in a bit when I have a moment”. They know I talk a lot and they don’t always have the time to listen, that has to be respected, especially with strangers. You never know if they have a meeting they are late for, or some other reason that they can’t talk about the dangers of a worn ball joint for more than 2 minutes. We all know what it’s like to have someone put our ear in a death grip when we are in a rush to get going.

    Now you can’t tell me that no one has ever heeded or appreciated your advice on something, so don’t punish everyone because of some other jerk, besides, it’s obviously not in your nature to sit on the sidelines of a topic you have knowledge of. Chill out and remember my motto, but don’t go changing on us.

  9. #9
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    Some real true words there Camexican.

    I know I listened to my Dad but didn't really hear him till years later...
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIDE-RED 250r View Post
    Some real true words there Camexican.

    I know I listened to my Dad but didn't really hear him till years later...
    "Younger ears must be deafer than old, because only now can I clearly hear what I was told..."

  11. #11
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    People have read and seen me write "The degradation of society continues".

    Give people SSI and their free phone and they are happy to be in an apartment for the rest of their lives!

    People won't help older people such as holding a door picking something up for them that they dropped.

    I was measuring up a "Hot Topic" HVAC system and took a break. I saw an old man fall and knock himself out; So I ran over to him as onlookers just watched (I am no medic). I tore my shirt off and placed it under his head. He woke up not knowing what happened. I asked him if he had any pain, if he could wiggle his toes and if he had feeling in his legs or arms. Finally a nurse was shopping and he had a diabetes on his bracelet and I let her take over. His wife was still in the store.

    People don't understand that these "OLD MEN" are so full if information that enjoy sharing it with you, IF you are willing to listen. You think WE have tips and tricks? These guys built this country and then politicians and the government ran it into the ground.
    What are your kids going to do when these "old birds" die? Many of them only know how to use the internet.

    I have met so many of you; My best friends are DEEPA Jeff and Fabio. As well as all of the guys that ride with us, they know who they are, they live further away but all we do is have a great time. The guys bring better meals (to a mountain!) than I get at home and I can't think of any of us even arguing. This sport and the passion for trikes must be doing something good!! All the old friends are gone; they lie or steal from me and use me. NO MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!

    If anyone has never been to Trikefest, you need to go. EVERYONE there goes around to all the other spots, many of them needing parts. EVERYONE at Trikefest makes it a fun time and we help each other.....

    My friends actually GIVE A SH!T about me. We trade favors and ride and it's great. And there not afraid to tell me when I'm an idiot.

    In 4th grade I met "Larry" and we have kept in touch. BUT, he only calls me so he can use my shop. So now I hand HIM the tools. He'll show up with nothing; oil/antifreeze/brake fluid and then he asks ME for beer and fluids. Ya get sick of being used after awhile.

    Common courtesy is gone. And I agree, no one seems to listen, they talk over you when your trying to explain something, just sickening.

    Many members don't even attempt to help themselves. I want 33" tires on nice wheels for my Tacoma, and I have read how difficult it is to get s full lock out of them without rubbing. I haven't even joined the forum, I'm doing my research before I look like a helpless newbie...........

    I honestly think we will continue to spiral downwards along with more inflation.
    All our government does is distract us while they steal from us, misspend our tax $ and ruin our country

  12. #12
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    John I know its frustrating, but just like our former north of the border, now south of the border friend eluded to. F'em! People will either listen or they won't, its their loss and no one else's. Its kinda like my dad used to say, when you stop beating your head against the wall it will stop hurting. I was young and stupid and really didn't know what the hell he was trying to say until the day I was telling him how I was trying to help a buddy who just wouldn't listen, but he was the one who came to me for help. He reminded me of the above saying. Its really that simple when dealing with people who don't want to listen.

    I have told myself lately that I will no longer participate in pissing contest's on here. Its just not worth it. My problem is being a Police Officer and having to deal with pissing matches or stupidity on a daily basis I tend to think I need to come on here and try and show people the light or the error of their ways. Its a flaw of mine and I apologize for acting this way. I came to this site with the intention of being seen and not heard, but its hard.

    I need to realize this is a hobby and an outlet from the everyday buffoonery I deal with and if someone is acting the fool or won't listen, just move on to the next thread.

  13. #13
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    I am in nursing and get treated like crap at work all the time. I was always taught the golden rule, "Do onto others as you would want done to you". It seems that more and more that this doesnt apply in todays society. But Fabio dont let this bother you, you are a great person and there are people that are interested in your help.
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  14. #14
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    I could write a long post adding to this, but it would just echo what has been said. I'm really new to this site and don't know anyone here personally but see it on this forum alot. It is even worse on the j-body forum I was on, yeah... Im a Cavalier/Sunfire nut....it is so bad there and with alot of the members in person that I have removed myself from that community and even started to part out my custom Cavalier. It can really ruin an honest passion with such ignorance and disrespect from idiots who can't tell their heads from their asses. Now I'm here and see a recurring trend, but such is life.

    Surround yourself with people who have common sense (its hard nowadays) and let the fools learn the hard way. Unfortunately this current society is based on protecting the stupid and rewarding the lazy. It truly is sad.

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  15. #15
    Scootertrash's Avatar
    Scootertrash is offline Just Too Addicted: Protecting Our Community The day begins with 3WW
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    I won't add much more that that I agree with pretty much everything said here. I got a lotta years on most of ya, I'm 52. You guys in your 30's and younger may as well get used to it cuz it never ends.

    Find solice in the fact that a large part of this community has more knowledge than a lot of college educated people. We can fix things in the middle of nowhere with a piece of bubble gum, some tire wire, a twisty tie, and some duct tape and get home when most people would be stuck for hours.
    Somebody can bring some of us a few boxes of parts and in a short time we can build a running operable machine while others would throw the boxes in a dumpster and buy one.

    Knowledge is power my friends, and with age comes wisdom(IF you choose to learn). And for you young know it alls who roll your eyes and say something like "whatever old man" Just remember what I said above. You'll see I was right. Ask any older person at what age they said to themselves "DAMN! Dad was a right!" right after that you will start thinking "Crap! I sound just like my parents did!
    Quote Originally Posted by fabiodriven View Post
    Trick the people into thinking they're enacting their own will and you have willing slaves.

    Liberalism suspends the intellect of its victims, while at the same time tricking them into believing that they're smarter than everyone else.


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