I finally snapped. What would you do?

[atc350xer]

Get a bigger dog!

Ummm, pretty sure that's a horse

[rjs89ia]

true stuff there atc350xer my dad did that to one of our dogs long ago when it attacked one of the other dogs, i went to school and there was no dog when i got home. i like my pets but i wouldnt think twice about putting a bullet in one if they pulled some trail pro on me or anyone. that goes for any animal yea they all have the right to live but its all limited in my eyes you trail pro up and its to the gallows with ya. back to the point if the animals on my property terrorizing me then why couldnt i neutralize it, its in my yard and ive got a right to protect myself.

[tri again]

Scooter: I do agree it's not cool to kill someone's pet. HOWEVER, if someone's pet is trespassing on your porperty and threatening to do harm then the property owner does have the right to defend one's self and/or children. And yes, the pet owner is ultimately to blame. It's unfortunate the animal may sometimes pay with it's life for the stupidity of it's owner, but in the grand scheme I would much rather dispose of a viscious dog than find it attacking my child.

Believe it or not, here in upstate NY, anyone who has any kind of livestock has the lawful right to shoot any stray dogs founs harrassing his animals. That is straight from law enforcement when my pareants' horse and 25 yr old pony were harrassed to such a degree by stray dogs they jumped our fence. LE told us if the dogs were harrassing our livestock we are within our rights to shoot the dogs.

Obviously, a solution that doesn't end with killing the dog is best, but ultimately Briano does in fact have the right of security on his own property.

Bottom line: bad neighbors SUCK!

I know a guy who got some cheap chickens just for that 'livestock' reason.
Dogs were chasing his horses but he had no good evidence.
so he 'let' the dogs get a few chickens and he had an airtight case for under 10 bucks.

However, in some states, chickens may not be considered livestock.

Courts love documentation, even if handwirtten.
Critter motion cameras are getting super cheap these days and even cheaper after xmas.

I just cannot imagine how I'd feel if something bad happened while you're trying to figure out what to do.
As long as the cops know you're concerned (and wrote something down as an incident report) , IF something does happen, they may have some accountability too.
Might be a good point to check.

(also remember getting bit in the face at age 5 or 6, JUST missed my left eye but also hold no animosity and actually had a magical female shep for 17 years).

Yupp, got bit in the freakin' face, the INstant the owner walked by me with the dog and said, "oh, he won't hurt you".

[bkm]

I would advise you to get educated in what the law REALLY states as far as dealing with nuisance and aggressive animals on your property in your area. Go directly to the nearest law enforcement headquarters and ask to speak to a supervisor on duty and tell him your having neighbor problems and want the correct advise on how to handle the situation.

This solves two things.
1.) Your not pulling a trooper away from what ever the hell he was doing to come and deal with neighbor issues and who is probably already jaded because he feels this is an issue that should be solved between adults and not the Police. He's pissed because he thinks this is petty and he has better stuff to be doing and is not going to give you the service you deserve. ( some of you will say its the troopers job and I agree 100%, but lets operate in the real world here people and take my word as the gospel on this one, I'm trying to help and these are just the cold hard facts)

2.) By speaking to a supervisor he will hopefully be a little more seasoned in dealing with these issues. He is in a face to face environment on his turf and he knows there will be no report needed or pissed off people to deal with on the scene. He can advise you on the steps you need to take and the rights you have within your property. Get a business card and refer to him if the problem continues and ask for help.

Education is the key in this situation, but remember that protection of your family is first and foremost. I do not kill animals just for the sake of killing, but I'll be damned if I will let one hold me hostage in my own home or threaten my family.

As far as the advise the Trooper gave you about documentation is correct. Without it the situation becomes a he said/he said and without proof, you have nothing to go on. The game camera is going to be a valuable tool along with a video from a window if possible. Evidence is what wins cases and produces results.

[tri again]

x2 BKM.

With all due respect, not all officers know every legal detail about every situation
'we the people' can conjure up.
It's impossible.
so yes, I agree wholeheartedly, to talk with the office staff, who can look up statutes
and cases and have fingertip access to all the rules.

Heck, my last time in court, I brought the statutes for the judge to read.

as in:
-Here's is what I would like, your honor.
-Here is why I think I have a right to this decision.
and on and on.
Again, with all due respect, I'm sure the judges can't possibly know every detail of every law and statute. This stuff goes on for hundreds and hundreds and thousands of pages.

oh, and they change them periodically without telling us.

Again, I'd just hate to see things go from bad to worse.

[bkm]

x2 BKM.

With all due respect, not all officers know every legal detail about every situation
'we the people' can conjure up.
It's impossible.
so yes, I agree wholeheartedly, to talk with the office staff, who can look up statutes
and cases and have fingertip access to all the rules.

Heck, my last time in court, I brought the statutes for the judge to read.

as in:
-Here's is what I would like, your honor.
-Here is why I think I have a right to this decision.
and on and on.
Again, with all due respect, I'm sure the judges can't possibly know every detail of every law and statute. This stuff goes on for hundreds and hundreds and thousands of pages.

oh, and they change them periodically without telling us.

Again, I'd just hate to see things go from bad to worse.

You are 100% correct Doc. I have been on scene of some real head scratchers and had to refer back to the statute book more than once.

The general public has the assumption that Police Officers are walking statute books and can recite the laws like Joe Friday on the movie Dragnet.

I will say this and its not an excuse on the officers part in this situation nor is it necessarily reflective of this particular event we are discussing . The victim has to be willing to sign a complaint or "press charges" in order for the criminal proceeding to begin, unless the officer witnesses the dog running at large on public (not private) property. If the dog is running at large on public land then the State or City become the victims and the Officer becomes the witness and he can interveen. If the offense is on private property the owner of said property has to become the victim and proceed with charges with the proper evidence, not hear say..

Sorry for my rant but this is an example of situation that comes around all the time with dealing with neighbor disputes:

I get a call for a loud party next door to the complainant. I contact the complaining party and ask if they are willing to sign a complaint against their neighbors for peace disturbance. They say "no" I just want it to stop. I tell the offenders of the complaint and they agree to be quite and I leave. 45 minutes later I'm back and repeat the process all over again. An hour later another call, but this time the complainant proceeds to rip me a new as$hole for what she say's is not doing my job.

I inform her that I cannot be the victim in this situation and my peace cannot be disturbed, she has to be the victim and sign a complaint. Then I can go and issue summons or effect an arrest if necessary, but she has to come to court and testify and my report will include the loud noise that was heard as I approached the suspect party. When they hear that they have to participate in the legal process the calls usually stop and people go on about there business.

The point I'm trying to make is if the Trooper showed up on scene and observed the dog in Brianos yard and Briano was willing to press charges, but the officer was not willing to do his job then there is a dereliction in duty. If there is no evidence while on scene and it is your word against his there really is no case and even if a case was presented to the prosecutor there will be no charges issued due to lack of evidence.

We all know that the Troopers aren't going to sit outside and wait for the dog to cross over so it becomes your burden to provide evidence proving your case, but be willing to go the extra mile if it ever goes to court. If it comes to a point were a hearing is established and you refuse to participate, there is no one but yourself to blame.

Good luck and if you need any advise feel free to drop me a PM.

[Mosh]

I did not take the time to read through all 4 pages of stories and suggestions so some of this advice may be repetitive.

Here is the deal. Local police authorities often will not, or do not have the power to enforce these issues.

There is IN FACT entities in your state that can help you with animal control.

http://www.maacoweb.com/

also try these guys..

http://www.aspca.org/

Any animal left to wander the streets and yards can be considered cruelty. As sad as things can be out of hand in this world, when it comes down to it, these people LOVE to go after potential cruel pet owners. A simple "altered report" of animal cruelty to his house will have this guy more than likely investigated and he should get the hint that you are using the proper channels to curb the issue and do something.

There are also various private services that are in every state that will capture animals that are a nuisance, many times charging a fee to the animal owner for the service to get their dog or animal back..
We used to have these issues also and a simple call to the state's animal control yielded a visit to the neighbors house and 1 week later they put up a invisible fence..I think you will benefit more by some web investigation, on your behalf, of your states policies and procedures, versus taking BB gun advice from a bunch of ATV enthusiast's..(No offense guys)

While hurting or trying to punish the dog for its roaming actions seems like the correct thing to do, it won't change the owner's practices, or responsibilty, and will probably make the dog MORE VIOLENT to your area where the pain is inflicted. Or even worse yet, make the drug addict neighbor become violent towards your and your family.

If all else fails, a roll of galvanized wire and an electric fence box on the length of your neighbor's property line, is very inexpensive and takes moments to install at a height where the dog crosses, it gets a jolt it won't believe. In conjunction with some bright ties on the wire, you yourself can train the animal to stay out of your yard as it will find out when it see's the ties he is going to far. Once it learns that you can take it down and sell it on CL to get your money back.

[tri again]

On a side note, we had a local neglected horse.
Some folks called the private horse rescue people who came to my house and asked how late I slept.

They said if I hear anything, not to worry about it.

and yupp, they showed up at 7 am and took the horse with the blessings of the
law.

Not a dog story but interesting.

[fabiodriven]

I think you will benefit more by some web investigation, on your behalf, of your states policies and procedures, versus taking BB gun advice from a bunch of ATV enthusiast's..(No offense guys)
.

A-fawking-men. Some of the crap coming out in this thread, for cripes sake boys...

[tri again]

A-fawking-men. Some of the crap coming out in this thread, for cripes sake boys...

sorry fab
the perils of a civilized society rearing polical correctness.

[jadleybray]

You don't really have a choice now that you've aired your dirty laundry on the world wide web. Play it by the book from here on out

[El Camexican]

You don't really have a choice now that you've aired your dirty laundry on the world wide web. Play it by the book from here on out

Good point!

[Scootertrash]

As long as the dog is dead when you shoot it they can't really do anything about it

Michigan law allows the owner of an illegally killed animal to recover coast of damages from the person responsible for the animals death. Basically the dog has to be in the act of or have caused bodily injury to people or animals. If you want clarification look up the Michigan animal laws.

I told him I carry a lead fence, one on my hip and the other in my pocket.

Briano may also want to refrain from reminding his neighbor he carries a gun (not to mention posting on the internet that you've used the fact that you carry to threaten his dog). If the neighbor tells the right (wrong?) officer this (particularly one who does not approve of conceal carry laws), this could be considered making a threat of bodily harm. You could lose your weapon AND the right to carry. It's called Concealed Carry for a reason. In military terms it's called OPSEC. Operational Security. You don't broadcast the fact that you carry a weapon, if you are carrying, or where you carry it. Not to mention the fact that carrying a weapon is a huge responsibility with potentially deadly consequences on both sides of the weapon. You never disclose the fact you have a weapon unless you have to pull it. Let alone a so called druggy neighbor you have a disagreement with.



ETA: Do you actually have proof he is a druggie or are you just making generalizations?

[briano]

He is a druggy, I don't know how he's not in jail. In Michigan I can open carry a firearm almost anywhere, so having it on my side in plain view is not a threat. If that's how he wants to view it that's fine, I have it for protection.

I'm going to get a game cam and call the police every time I have a pic of the dog in my yard, eventually they will have to do something, I can press charges for trespassing for his dog coming over.

[Scootertrash]

You never said that Michigan is open carry, you posted

I told him I carry a lead fence, one on my hip and the other in my pocket.

Big difference between telling someone you have a weapon and aren't afraid to use it, and legally being able to open carry.

I would second the game cam. You'll have pics if the dog comes over even if you aren't home, so you may actually get more evidence.

Full Disclosure: Minnesota does have Conceal carry (and open carry) and I do carry a majority of the time, but CCW is a complete other thread. Just so noone thinks I'm some kind of anti-gun dweeb.