Couple of carb questions

[CodyRosa]

Hey everyone, I got a couple real nooby questions.. haven't touched a carb in 3 months so i kinda forgot a little bit. Please refresh my memory =)

So first question:

-Just got my wheeler fired up today for the first time sense it was all taken apart. Obviously after everything I did to it, my previous adjustments to the carb are going to be way off. So at first it blew black smoke, figured running real rich so immediately shut if off and turn the air/fuel mixture screw out 2 turns. All was good after that and I was able to ride it. Now first, 2nd gear are fine but when I "give it" in 3rd + gear it bogs down(i'm guessing to much fuel?)

-When the machines in neutral it will idle sorta.. At first it was to slow of an idle so I turned the screw in a bit and it sounded fine but then after 10 seconds it slowed back down again.. i give it some gas and she stays right where it should idle for another 10 seconds and back down again to a slow idle for maybe 30 seconds and then it'll kill.

-carb is leaking.. it appears right at the gasket but the only thing I don't understand is the carb was PERFECT when I left it.. I left it in a cold garage for 3 months until today. So i figure ok maybe the gasket cracked or something(it still looks good) so I grabbed my brand new gasket that i had laying in my room and put that on.. still leaking. Took carb off another time and tightened even more and threw a glue like substance around it just to see and nope it still leaks from that spot. Floats are not sticking and everything inside is brand new. Looks like its coming from the air/fuel mixture screw area but I could be wrong. (gas sits on that screw like water does before it drips)

-Now this last question isn't carb related but I figure I'd ask. So my Run/Off switch does nothing anymore lol.. I have headlight/taillight (don't look bright then again I checked in the daytime haha) but literately the Run and Off does nothing and its kinda scary so does anyone know where I could start to look?

Thanks everyone.

[yaegerb]

First I would ask what carb is this off of? Second I would ask have you adjusted the carb per your manual specifications? Third, do you know for a fact that the float level is set correctly and that your air screw is set to OEM specs?

Then I would ask, are the jets in the carb stock? Have you made any upgrades, like no air box lid, better air filter, better exhaust?

All necessary information.

[CodyRosa]

Ok the Carb is off a Honda 200M, Nope I have not done that yet, suppose that'd be a good thing lol. Before all gaskets on top end were blown, plus it wasn't sucking much air from airbox. All that's fixed now so its like a hole new machine to me. Yup I know for a fact the float level is correct. Everything worked perfectly after I did my carb rebuild. Nope air screw isn't OEM specs.

Jets are stock, only thing that changed is new top end gaskets(like I said they were absolutely shot before lol) AND before they rigged the airbox so it wasn't sucking air through frame.

Basically everything is stock on this machine, 200M carb, 200x frame with 200x airbox, UNI airfilter, stock 200M exhaust.

I kinda forgot this machines stock with no issues anymore so I'll try OEM specs and go from there.

Still need help on that electrical and the leaking.

[yaegerb]

what year is the 200M?

I can't help you with the electrical, but I'll see what I can do with the carb.

[CodyRosa]

The 200M carb and top end are a 1985.(top end is 200M and bottom is 185 not that it matters)

[yaegerb]

The 200M carb and top end are a 1985.(top end is 200M and bottom is 185 not that it matters)

Here you go.

http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmot.../m1893#sch4682

Look at part number 5 in the schematics. It appears you have an O-ring in your air/fuel mixture screw. Take yours out and verify that you do have that o-ring. If you do, I would bet its bad and you need to replace it. You can order it as a set for 16 bux from bike bandit.

Anyway, set your air/fuel screw to OEM specs, fix the o-ring if needed and let us know how it runs. Can't diagnose a carb unless its set to OEM specs

[CodyRosa]

I never had an O ring, even when it was the original carb. The carb rebuild didn't even come with one. I know I put permatex in that air/fuel screw and today when I took it off it was kinda cracked. Never leaked there before :/

I guess I put some permatex in there again and if that doesn't seal it then somethings happening with the gasket.. =(

I will put everything to OEM specs tomorrow and update you =) I'm riding with a buddy tomorrow so i'll really know how it works then.

Thanks Yaegerb!

[CodyRosa]

Oh the only O ring I had was for the pilot jet.. not sure where theres even one though lol

[barnett468]

Hello

If your mix screw takes an o ring and it should. If it mounts on the SCREW the screw will have a smooth machined area for it. The o ring most likely mounts in the carb body. If you look in the body where the screw goes you will see a thin machined area where the o ring goes. If you bought a carb kit and your carb DOES take an o ring, which it should, than the carb kit is not an oem kit. Here’s what happens, some aftermarket kit mfg’s aren’t smart enough to figure out there is supposed to be an o ring in there so they don’t include one.


Get a Honda or comparable kit that includes the o ring or try to find right size at o ring supply store. It must be made from fuel resistant rubber, the hardware store ones won’t work.


Who made your kit, overseas?

[barnett468]

Ok, I’m lost, plus your bogging explanation is not clear so please answer the following.

REGARDING “BOG” – This term is not specific. If it BURBLES/SPUTTERS upon acceleration it is rich. IF it does NOT burble/sputter when throttle is applied but simply hesitates it is called a flat spot by most and is LEAN. The throttle position and condition under which the problem occurs is the area of the carb that requires adjustment, ie pilot jet, mix screw, main jet, jet needle choke height, slide cutaway etc.

Your black smoke upon initial start up may also have been from residue left in exhaust pipe, ie carbon in pipe dried out and blew out when motor was started.

Start with a new plug, check plug color after 1 hour of running.

Did you change anything since the last time it ran fine, ie pipe, carb etc?

How do you choke it to start it, ie full, half, 0 etc?

Does it have a flat spot off idle ie does it BURBLE, SPUTTER, or just doesn’t go right away?

When you have your “bog” in third does it BURBLE, SPUTTER, or just doesn’t go right away?

[CodyRosa]

When I say I didn't have an O ring.. i literately mean I didn't have an O ring haha even to begin with. This carb was never tampered with and NEVER leaked.. even with I had the carb original it never came with a O ring there. It never had any O rings on the screws. This Moose carb rebuild kit only came with a O ring for the pilot screw. I ran this carb for a few hours with no leaks. Meaning why out of no where would it leak because I don't have an O ring when it never even leaked the first 5 hours of use? lol I'll try to put some permatex in it and see if that fixes it because that's what I had in it before and it never leaked anywhere.


Ok so for the bogging, first gear and 2nd gear are ok. 2nd has a little stutter when I give it but not much.. barely noticeable. 3rd is a little worse, 4th is even worse and 5 is kinda bad lol. When I mean bog.. i mean just a stutter I guess.. not sure how to explain it? It must be just rich, but I'm going to take yaegerbs advice for now and go OEM specs, if that doesn't work we'll go from there.

Thanks Barnett

Oh and to answer your choke question: I put choke on all the way and then once its running I turn choke off. Stays running with a little bit of throttle for about 30 seconds.

[barnett468]

Hello

That helps a bit but part of my questions were not answered so it doesn’t help people much. You are still saying it ran fine, you changed nothing, now it is rich and you want to change jets. Sorry it doesn’t work that way. Your jets did not get richer from sitting in your carb. I know you said you KNOW your float level correct but if it was me I would do the following. Lower the float level a little. Per member “tri again”. You can hook up a clear hose to the drain vent hold hose up next to carb, unscrew drain screw, level in clear tube should be at or slightly lower than bottom lip of carb body at float bowl.

The term stutter is good your carb is RICH.

Is the air clean with little or no air filter oil not motor oil?

It will run rich if your float level is too high!

The term stutter is good your carb is rich.


1. Lower float level

2. If problem persists, lower carb needle by raising clip position by three or to top whichever number is less.

Your “stutter should now be significantly reduced.

Is your carb OEM Keihin or Chinese replacement. Unless it was new OEM how do you know it isn’t supposed to have o ring in the body?

CHOKE/PILOT – Try to start your bike with no choke and no or little throttle. If it starts easily on cool day pilot is too large.

[barnett468]

Hello CodyRosa

If I or many other members here were there we could likely determine all your carb problems and fix them in less than 40 minutes if we had the parts. Since we are not there we need to ask lot’s of questions to best determine the most likely cause of your problem. If one does not answer them all and do any reasonable tests requested BEFORE making some particular changes, it becomes difficult, unnecessarily time consuming and possibly impossible to help.

[Jwmajic]

If the kill switch don't work you got a bad wire or connection get out the multimeter and check continuity.

[barnett468]

IDLE/MIX SCREW O RING – I know someone here knows this for sure but until then here’s what I think it is. If the inside of the carb body absolutely positively has no GROOVE for an o ring then item #5 Yeagerb is referring to in the photo he was kind enough to take his time and post for you is a CORG sleeve. I bet if there is no o ring grove in your carb body then the first 1/8”-1/4” of the hole will be smooth with NO threads. This smooth portion of the hole will also be around 1/8” larger than the screw. This clearance is to accommodate the CORK sleeve. Without a seal of some type, air can leak past the threads on the screw causing erratic idle.

Either cork or O rings are used to seal ALL air screws on carburetors since the pre 70’s. Very few if any carb air screws use “jamb” type threads which theoretically need no seal.

Cork is never used to seal a screw in which fuel passes across it. This is why your carb float bowl drain screw has an O ring not a cork sleeve.

Did you get a CORK sleeve in your carb kit, if not there should have been?

Did you pour gas in your float bowl to see if floats may be sinking slightly?

Drain float bowl gas into glass via drain screw. See if there small bits of rust or water in it.


Still think float level may be high.