New carb, spark but still wouldn't fire......HELP

**ericmreimer** · 08-13-2013, 10:19 PM

'84 200ES with new carb, new plug. Pulled the plug and its getting plenty of spark. What next? Maybe I need to prime the carb? Might try a shot of starting fluid?

Oh, it hasn't run in years either. It was given to me a couple weeks ago.

**yammerhammer88** · 08-13-2013, 11:15 PM

check for fuel and a quick way would be to pull the spark plug and prime the engine if it fires over definitely a fuel issue

**yammerhammer88** · 08-13-2013, 11:21 PM

i would also check for intake restrictions such as clogged intake manifold, carb-to-airbox intake boot, airbox with rats nest or other restrictions, especially if its been sitting and the air filter itself could be clogged, hopefully its not a mechanical hard failure such as broken intake rocker arm tip which would not let the fuel/air mixture in or other things, but i highly doubt it if the trike is in good/fair shape. i hope this kind of helps, im new to the forums but not new to motors

**yammerhammer88** · 08-13-2013, 11:24 PM

oh and btw, sometimes new parts such as carbs, etc. have a cosmoline type gel crap used to prevent corrosion rust and prevent/ wick away moisture for storing and shipping, that might cause the fuel float to stick in a closed position ive made that mistake several times easy to do with the excitement when putting on new parts to hear something run

**ericmreimer** · 08-13-2013, 11:52 PM

Thanks guys, I had the air box off and when the card was off I could see the intake valve, i dont think its a intake restriction. also opened the rocker arm caps and cranked it just to make sure it was opening and closing fine and all seems ok.

Going to get some starter fluid tomorrow and go from there.

Thanks, will report back!

**kb0nly** · 08-14-2013, 10:43 AM

Dont use that starting fluid crap!!! Good way to ruin a 4 stroke engine.

Get a small $1.00 or less spray bottle from the cleaning supplies isle in any store, fill it with fresh gas, and there you have your primer. You can set it to stream to squirt right in the plug hole or mist and fog into the carb. Safer than starting fluid which in my opinion has its use, but only on a diesel!! LOL

If you crank it over for a while does the spark plug even get wet? Also, pull off the airbox cover and filter and leave it off for now to troubleshoot, sometimes the frame tube gets full of crap from a squirrel or mouse. I had one the tube was full of acorns! Which meant no air to the airbox.

**ericmreimer** · 08-14-2013, 01:18 PM

I'll give it another shot when I get home tonight and report back!

**ericmreimer** · 08-15-2013, 10:19 PM

So I got it running last night and was hoping it would just fire up tonight but it did not start. I made a disheartening observation though. I was looking for the timing marks and noticed that while turning over the motor with the starter there was air coming out of the timing inspection port. In my head I'm thinking ring blow by but on the other hand yesterday when it was running, it didn't smoke at all.

The other thing....stupid I know....but how do you turn it over by hand? Pull string is broke and I am waiting on back tires. I never got it turned over to check the timing marks.

Also can someone give me a quick and dirty on how to check compression? I'll go do a google search too but is there any special considerations with a ATC?

**CodyRosa** · 08-16-2013, 12:04 AM

How do you turn it over by hand? Are you trying to start it by turning it over or turning it just to see the timing marks? To start it (without tires) try wrapping rope around it and pulling. Not sure what your machine has but mine has a basket type thing behind the recoil so I just stick a long screw driver in there and slowly turn it.

Well do you have a compression tester? I'm sure somewhere like NAPA or O Reillies would carry one. Not sure if you can rent these?

Also are you 100% positive you are getting good spark? I thought I was getting good spark to once.. ended up NOT being good spark. Bought a new plug and it fired first pull. Also make sure the spark doesn't cut out every once in awhile.. check grounds, loose wires etc.

**ericmreimer** · 08-16-2013, 07:25 AM

Just trying to line up the timing marks.

I don't have a gauge but will go get one today. Don't you just pull the plug, install the tester and crank it a few times. There's a check valve and it just keeps the pressure on the gauge. Is that right? Never used one before. You'd think I would have an idea considering I've built motors but just never had a need.

I'm going to pick up a couple extra plugs when I get the tester tonight.

Thanks

**tvpierce** · 08-16-2013, 09:04 AM

Yes, that's the proper procedure, with one addition: the throttle has to be wide open.

EDIT: BTW, air blowing out the inspection port is perfectly normal. Mine does it, and my compression is perfect (155 psi)

**kb0nly** · 08-16-2013, 12:09 PM

Air out the inspection port is normal, and if it was running and you removed it you would get a nice spray of oil... The 200ES has a wet flywheel and stator, there is oil in that side of the motor all the time as its the return from the head down the timing chain galley.

If you remove the pull starter, just bolts to the side of the motor, there is a metal basket type piece that the recoil engages to rotate the engine, you can use a screwdriver across the slots to slowly turn it over, or a strap wrench around it, i have done that before to line up timing marks.

Definitely check compression, no telling why it was originally parked, i have had a few that were parked because they had engine problems but by the time i discovered them nobody knew that reason anymore. When you had it running did it smoke at all????

**ericmreimer** · 08-16-2013, 12:43 PM

First i want to apologize for multiple threads

Thanks for all the help so far, we're getting there slowly but surely.....

It did not smoke at all! There is some black soot on the tail pipe however and a lot of rust chunks blew out onto the garage floor. The original owner doesn't know why it was parked unfortunately because her husband passed several years ago and its just been in the barn since about '96 or so.

**kb0nly** · 08-16-2013, 02:49 PM

Does the exhaust still have the spark arrestor in the end of the pipe? If it does see if you can get it out, clean it up, and with it out get it running rev it a few times and blow some more crap out, or keep revving it until nothing comes out.

Blowing out rust chunks and crap like it is you could have a partially plugged exhaust which could be a big part of your problem. My 200ES did the same thing when i got it, was running rough and rich and even after replacing the carb it still ran like crap. I found out the exhaust was bad and replaced it, night and day difference.

**tvpierce** · 08-16-2013, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by kb0nly

Does the exhaust still have the spark arrestor in the end of the pipe? If it does see if you can get it out, clean it up, and with it out get it running rev it a few times and blow some more crap out, or keep revving it until nothing comes out.

Blowing out rust chunks and crap like it is you could have a partially plugged exhaust which could be a big part of your problem. My 200ES did the same thing when i got it, was running rough and rich and even after replacing the carb it still ran like crap. I found out the exhaust was bad and replaced it, night and day difference.

+1

I chased problems on mine for months (got a lot of guidance from KB and others) but it still ran like crap. I finally swapped the exhaust, and bingo... it runs like a top.

BTW, you could trouble shoot it easily/cheaply just by taking the muffler off (leave the header pipe on). It'll be really loud, but if the exhaust is the problem, it will run much better -- just a bit lean.

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New carb, spark but still wouldn't fire......HELP