Putting things in places they ought not to be (250R Hybrid Motor build)

**Billy Golightly** · 11-22-2014, 12:32 PM

While I was about half way through - yes. I think I will try that on the next one as that seems to be a bit of a missing link between the finished look of mine and most others I've seen. There is already an incredibly amount of start and stopping though, so I'm not really sure adding more to do that will work out the best, but clearly the real pipe builders do something a bit different to flatten and smooth out their joints a bit more. Part of it may be using a O/A torch setup and making a wider bead? Not sure..

**Dirtcrasher** · 11-22-2014, 10:47 PM

It's somewhere between beautiful or the tail end of some crazy underground dwelling creature

**manbearpig** · 11-22-2014, 10:58 PM

i heard the owner of BDT talking about how Kenny Roberts uses some type of fusion with no welding media. sections are fused together leaving no inside or outside bead. just a clean joint. dont know, im not a welder or "metal fuser" but it sounded legit when he was describing it

good lookin pipe Billy

**Billy Golightly** · 11-22-2014, 11:37 PM

That is interesting. .. if you have perfect joints you can do a fusion weld with no filler, but your setup has zero room for error there then. I just wonder if the tig or o/a them. Arlen on led performance Facebook said they use tig to tack and o/a to finish. Would love to pick one of those guy's brains sometime.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

**C.J** · 11-22-2014, 11:42 PM

I would think the o/a would be the way to go. You get a smoother bead and better heat dissipation vs a super narrow bead with the heat just on the joint. I've noticed with like the raw SCP, LED, PSI, Jolly Moto pipes the heat discoloration is way wider vs the heat discoloration with a for-sure TIG welded pipe. I'm sure Arlen or Mat would give you some pointers if you asked nicely and explained you're just doing a couple pipes for yourself.

Side note: REALLY loving being able to use Tapatalk now!!

92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)

**fabiodriven** · 11-23-2014, 04:02 AM

That's absolutely fantastic William. I'd like to tackle a pipe build someday myself. We'll get in-depth in June while assembling the grill. I need the skinny on how you figure this all out and put it together. Then shortly thereafter we'll go throw some big bore roost around.

**Billy Golightly** · 11-23-2014, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by C.J

I would think the o/a would be the way to go. You get a smoother bead and better heat dissipation vs a super narrow bead with the heat just on the joint. I've noticed with like the raw SCP, LED, PSI, Jolly Moto pipes the heat discoloration is way wider vs the heat discoloration with a for-sure TIG welded pipe. I'm sure Arlen or Mat would give you some pointers if you asked nicely and explained you're just doing a couple pipes for yourself.

Side note: REALLY loving being able to use Tapatalk now!!

92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)

I believe you're right. I really wanted to try a silicon bronze rod for the joints (I brought some recently) but I just didn't feel like I knew enough yet how to use it and I was getting anxious on putting this thing together. The other down side with using the yellow material is if it ever cracks or breaks anywhere, you're kinda effed to stick it back together without the same filler and setup. That'd be my luck to have it shake apart at trikefest or out in the dunes and have no way to repair it (like finding a tig welder or o/a torch is hard enough).

**Billy Golightly** · 11-23-2014, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by fabiodriven

That's absolutely fantastic William. I'd like to tackle a pipe build someday myself. We'll get in-depth in June while assembling the grill. I need the skinny on how you figure this all out and put it together. Then shortly thereafter we'll go throw some big bore roost around.

I'll bring the wind and rain again for that endeavor.

**Billy Golightly** · 12-19-2014, 08:09 PM

Ladies and gentleman, men and women, children of all ages, I am most pleased to announce to my most esteemed fellow cohorts in moto science and bench racing studies.......

I have ordered the (I believe) last parts necessary to complete and assemble this motor.

It was a

expensive order;

Complete case bearing kit
Blind bearing puller
shift-shaft needle bearings (for my experiment)
A freshly plated cylinder
A new +4mm stroker crank
A new 39mm PWK Carb
An angled coolant elbow since I have to re-do my planned routing because of the size of the pipe.

I have to place a second order to McMaster Carr for a couple little odds and ends (couple heli-coils, a metric drill to try out that needle bearing on, etc.)

I have set a self imposed deadline of January 1 to finally hear this

run.

**Buster Brown** · 12-19-2014, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by Billy Golightly

That is interesting. .. if you have perfect joints you can do a fusion weld with no filler, but your setup has zero room for error there then. I just wonder if the tig or o/a them. Arlen on led performance Facebook said they use tig to tack and o/a to finish. Would love to pick one of those guy's brains sometime.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Billy,
Rob Selvy explained to me that pipe guys like Kenny and Matt fusion weld their pipes with a gas torch, then hand pound each weld seam to smooth them out. Like a Chinese walk, but with seams. I'm going to spend a week with Kenny and Rob in February, and look forward to seeing the process.

**Billy Golightly** · 12-19-2014, 08:57 PM

Oh man! I'd love to see that in person! Not sure if you'll be able to take any pictures or video, but that surely is some once in a lifetime first hand experience you'll be getting there.

**bkm** · 12-20-2014, 01:28 AM

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

Billy,
Rob Selvy explained to me that pipe guys like Kenny and Matt fusion weld their pipes with a gas torch, then hand pound each weld seam to smooth them out. Like a Chinese walk, but with seams. I'm going to spend a week with Kenny and Rob in February, and look forward to seeing the process.

Can I stow away in your luggage?

**Buster Brown** · 12-20-2014, 04:33 AM

Funny Bryan. Rob's got me packing an extra jumbo bag filled with short track parts.... Good thing Southwest allows a second bag without charge ;-)
I'm not only suprized, but obviously honored to be invited. I'm actually staying with them at Kenny's place so it will be extra fun! We have plans to go to the Imperial dunes over Presidents Day weekend. My first trip to the dunes, and I get to embark with these two! Pretty sure what ever they have for me to ride won't be any slowch. I plan to take plenty of pics and maybe video. I'll feel out the temperature, but I get the vibe they're up for fun.
Anyway enough of my gloating, back to Rotax pipe building 101.

**RIDE-RED 250r** · 12-20-2014, 11:56 AM

So Billy,

We have a Hond-Ax with a bore and stroke of 82x76.... 401cc.

And also, you are running the R.A.V.E. valve, correct???

I am SO looking forward to the test run report!!!

Congratulations! I hope all of your hard work pays off in spades! Might be the next big thing!!

**Billy Golightly** · 12-20-2014, 01:24 PM

Yup, rave valve. I think the bore is 83.5mm but I could be wrong it's been so long since I started working on this thing I am not sure haha.

I'm thinking I'll call it the Rotonda

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Thread: Putting things in places they ought not to be (250R Hybrid Motor build)

Thread Tools